KennyJ Posted June 1, 2023 Report Share Posted June 1, 2023 Hi all, clio MK2 with mk3 head , pulley , solenoid and cam sensor. Extreme Wire in ecu , cut of the old ecu (which ran the on/off type vct) , installed an Extreme instead. engine is build(not by me) with catcams 300degree cams for vct. also has stronger valvesprings. engine runs semi-sequential (as before) on a aftermarket 60-2 crank wheel. I do not run it full sequential. engine only has 1 cam sensor on the (normally) moving cam. vvt solenoid is running on injector output 6(it does pwm , i took the solenoid out of the head and confirmed it worked when tested) , cam signal is working (hall) and i tried to use this on Trig 2 and on DI1. when i try to set it up there are some weird issues. sometimes when i initiate the calibrating position it doesnt recognise the tooth offsets , when i set that menu on inlet cam 1 i can see allmost steady numbers in the F12 vvt menu. another weird thing is i sometimes see numbers : 68-151-331-608 , sometimes i see 247-427-511-691 , i would assume this is due to running semi sequential. when i enter the numbers manually i get no vvt error counters. i am unable to automaticaly let the ecu fill in the numbers there. biggest problem is i am unable to see the cam move. i can pwm or 100% turn on the solenoid and the cam doesnt move at all. the numbers in the absolute vvt position menu stay exactly the same. i have zero experience with these engines , when i setup subaru's its so easy i dont even remember how i set it up there. But this engine stays in the calibrating menu without saving the counted teeth or offsets. what am i missing here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted June 1, 2023 Report Share Posted June 1, 2023 So crank trigger and then one trigger on the cam? no trigger sensors? Is the 'VVT' a switched type or a continuously variable type? Can you take a trigger scope at idle and attach it here please while the VVT output is off. Where is the cam sensor located relative to the cam? is it on the cam gear or part way down the cam shaft? If the motor is a twin cam head which cam is the sensor located on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted June 2, 2023 Report Share Posted June 2, 2023 A Clio isnt 60-2, it is an odd 60-1+1-1, you need to use Clio 3RS VVT trigger mode with the cam sensor connected to trigger 2. It needs 720 sync for VVT control. You also need to use an aux output for the VVT solenoid as injector drives have no free-wheeling diode so they will give poor response when driving a PWM solenoid (slow to close). But this wouldnt stop the cam from moving if you were using "Test ON" mode though, the solenoid should be fully open so the cam should slam to full advance instantly. So it sounds like there is a mechanical or electrical issue if you dont hear the crash as the actuator hits the mechanical stop and the engine runs very rough when you set the drive to test mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyJ Posted June 2, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2023 @Vaughan yes running only on crank now , the cam sensor is on the cam , not the pulley , so it would be phazing compared to the crank when the vvt would work , it is a continuesly moving type the flywheel is changed @Adamw , so thats why i cant use the clio 3 mode. is there any way i could setup 720 sync mode with the cam sensor on the cam itself ? i believe a JZ also uses only 2 sensors for sync and vvti ? i'll move the output over to an aux pin, i tried the on test mode (confirmed steady 12V and ground over the solenoid with a multimeter backprobing) its not making any difference. the only thing right now i'm unsure of is my technique of using the "absolute vvt position menu" to check if the cam moves , as it doesnt move at all , i cant hear a difference , and it should move 40 degree cam so that would be definatly hearable. i've seen the plunjer move while i took it out , i can hear it click , i've confirmed 12V over the valve with engine running and in "test on" mode 40 degree of cam movement would cause a massive difference in afr readings so i am quite sure it doesnt move at all, just need confirmation i did all correctly ecu wise before i send it back to the engine builder for the second time now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted June 2, 2023 Report Share Posted June 2, 2023 For a generic multi-tooth/missing trigger mixed with OEM cam pattern you will likely need to use cam window or cam level sync. Or it may be a close enough match to one of the other OEM 60-2 based trigger modes. The cam sensor needs to be wired to trigger 2 then give us a trigger scope capture at idle with the vvt solenoid unplugged and we can advise on the sync set-up with that. 2 hours ago, Wanderer said: the only thing right now i'm unsure of is my technique of using the "absolute vvt position menu" to check if the cam moves You don't even need the ecu to see if the VVT works or not, if the cam moves you will instantly add an extra 40deg of overlap to the valve events at idle, it will either stall straight away or by some miracle it may continue to run (barely) but it will be very obvious something significant has changed. You can even take the ecu and wiring out of the picture completely and just connect 12V and ground straight to the solenoid from the battery when it is idling to confirm. Check that you have adequate oil pressure at idle with the VVT activated also, some engines dont. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyJ Posted June 2, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2023 i'll get that trigger scope image when i'm with the car as for the vvt , i tried higher in the rpms to to have some more oil pressure , its about 6 bars there , at idle its 2, it doesnt make a difference at all sp back to the engine builder it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyJ Posted June 12, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2023 On 6/2/2023 at 11:26 AM, Adamw said: For a generic multi-tooth/missing trigger mixed with OEM cam pattern you will likely need to use cam window or cam level sync. Or it may be a close enough match to one of the other OEM 60-2 based trigger modes. The cam sensor needs to be wired to trigger 2 then give us a trigger scope capture at idle with the vvt solenoid unplugged and we can advise on the sync set-up with that. @Adamw where should i send the trigger scope images to ? i took a few on different idle rpms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koracing Posted June 12, 2023 Report Share Posted June 12, 2023 Post your images here directly or via a link to a dropbox, google drive, onedrive, etc. link with sharing or viewing turned on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyJ Posted June 14, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2023 So link to the map:https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sPgf3sY9CKlz12NujY6XmH3ZFRus4R-N/view?usp=drive_link triggers: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ICd-MJC-Dc7Tt-gsPEbvJXTzRFWMHUon/view?usp=drive_linkhttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1dRt_A_d9XL3RjFEt-ncKn9DYNOy_Rngw/view?usp=drive_linkhttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1ocGuhZP_QlY3aUKGDZjegeYe6ukxc_gd/view?usp=drive_linkhttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1xrbdZwyamEpsUA1yQgeEkuAHNTbQq8Fp/view?usp=drive_linkhttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1JyfZrgeHv23jcMNBzuBmhHhOi7qwmbaB/view?usp=drive_linkhttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1zgYMseQpYG1Cum5Ql-eR8x-ZTxENwElL/view?usp=drive_link i did some on 1000 1100 1200 1300 1400 1500 rpm etc the cam pattern is factory clio mk3 the crank is 60-2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted June 15, 2023 Report Share Posted June 15, 2023 Trigger 2 Sync mode set to cam level will work well for this cam/crank combo. If it doesnt start after you change that setting then change the trigger offset to 255 (ie 360 deg later). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyJ Posted June 30, 2023 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2023 i got this all working , pid control was setup in 15 minutes and very very solid on the target , made a solid 260 flywheel HP out of a 2000cc engine , limit were the rpm's at 7600 due to the hydro lifters , would have made heaps more when it could rev higher thanks all for your inputs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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