crank no start, now starts then dies.

[Jed_dc2]

Done some work over weekend and now got a crank no start problem please find attached log and tune.

I accidentally connected a 12v wire to the 5v ecu wire and this damaged the fuel and oil pressure sensors but everything else still seems to work just not starting.

Was fine all last week until I finished wiring EGT amplifier and changed to a new meth pressure sensor.

If anyone can seen something in the logs please let me know, jump pack didnt make a difference either but got the battery on charge now anyway.

thanks

Jed

 

[Jed_dc2]

This is after battery on charge for a bit.

 

[koracing]

Your map sensor appears to have also been affected.  It's showing 4kpa absolute when your barometric pressure is 100kpa.   They should match with key on engine off.

[Jed_dc2]

16 minutes ago, koracing said:

Your map sensor appears to have also been affected.  It's showing 4kpa absolute when your barometric pressure is 100kpa.   They should match with key on engine off.

I just tried to calibrate map sensor and it failed do you think its possible It has been damaged ?

would certainly explain the problem

[koracing]

It's on the 5v circuit, so it's probable if other sensors got damaged, so did that.

[Jed_dc2]

replacement map sensor fitted and calibrated still wont run like it used to.

It fires then dies pretty quickly.

pretty stuck at this point as not sure what could have changed to cause this.

TPS seems to be fine I have a replacement can swap to if required.

I think its worth mentioning the car ran fine on this file or one very similar to it last week. Its only since I have had the sensor problems mentioned in this post that I have had this problem.

 

[Adamw]

You've got very little fuel going in, effective PW is only ~0.5ms and you have less than 200kpa fuel pressure.  Your master fuel set to 6ms seems very low - what size injectors does it have?

[Jed_dc2]

5 hours ago, Adamw said:

You've got very little fuel going in, effective PW is only ~0.5ms and you have less than 200kpa fuel pressure.  Your master fuel set to 6ms seems very low - what size injectors does it have?

Id1050X injectors.

fuel pressure is set around 3/3.5 bar.

b18c engine.

Started and ran fine before I had the problems with the sensors.

[Adamw]

Fix your fuel pressure issue and double your master fuel, then give me a new log if it then doesnt run for longer

[Jed_dc2]

12 hours ago, Adamw said:

Fix your fuel pressure issue and double your master fuel, then give me a new log if it then doesnt run for longer

base fuel pressure was indeed 2 bar so I adjusted the regulator back to 3 bar.

Its more eager to start now but still dies.

I dont understand how it be can tuned on a master fuel value and be fine to drive then not be correct at a later date on the same value.

2206log.llgx

[Amrit Sidhu]

Try master fuel trim at 10 ms and see if it wants to crank. It'll need to be tuned eventually in fuel table.

[Jed_dc2]

46 minutes ago, Amrit Sidhu said:

Try master fuel trim at 10 ms and see if it wants to crank. It'll need to be tuned eventually in fuel table.

Its already been tuned. I need to understand why its not working anymore.

I have been driving around on this tune for a while with zero problems until last weekend and now it does not work.

[koracing]

"How exactly is a rainbow made? How exactly does a sun set? How exactly does a posi-trac rear-end on a Plymouth work? It just does." - Fred Ward in Joe Dirt 2

Your 12v to 5v makes me wonder if you shouldn't send the Link back in to be tested and verified.  There may still be something else going on. 

Alternative - it is what it is right now and tune it for what it is.  Likely the whole thing needs to be rescaled and all sensor calibrations rechecked. 

Maybe you just need to keep raising fuel pressure to get it where you want it or modify the master fuel until it idles like it did and see how it drives once that's taken care of.

[Jed_dc2]

14 minutes ago, koracing said:

"How exactly is a rainbow made? How exactly does a sun set? How exactly does a posi-trac rear-end on a Plymouth work? It just does." - Fred Ward in Joe Dirt 2

Your 12v to 5v makes me wonder if you shouldn't send the Link back in to be tested and verified.  There may still be something else going on. 

Alternative - it is what it is right now and tune it for what it is.  Likely the whole thing needs to be rescaled and all sensor calibrations rechecked. 

Maybe you just need to keep raising fuel pressure to get it where you want it or modify the master fuel until it idles like it did and see how it drives once that's taken care of.

sending it back is an option but would like to avoid if possible.

Is there a factory/master reset option I could try before uploading my old tune ?

I have raised fuel pressure to the 3 bar It was tuned on and it starts better but still does not run like it used to.

would also be nice to Know why fuel pressure dropped one bar.

[koracing]

No master reset other than going through and updating firmware - but that doesn't really reset anything as much as make sure any fixes that have happened that link is aware of are accounted for.  Save and save often so you can always go back. 

Do you have datalogs of when it was running good for comparison? 

You've changed some things so those need to be checked.  Have you performed coil and injector tests?  It sounded like it still didn't start with the 3 bar fuel - but you're saying now it does run? 

Also I saw in your tune you had meth injection.  Is it possible you dumped a bunch of meth into the motor?  I've had the ecu freak out drop comms and stop functioning all together mid pull on boost.  Because the meth system was possible to be active and the output on the ecu grounded when the ecu shut off it poured meth into the intercooler piping.  That made it run like doodoo for a while after the ecu was power cycled and reset on the side of the road with the throttle held wide open to clear out the meth.

[Jed_dc2]

31 minutes ago, koracing said:

No master reset other than going through and updating firmware - but that doesn't really reset anything as much as make sure any fixes that have happened that link is aware of are accounted for.  Save and save often so you can always go back. 

Do you have datalogs of when it was running good for comparison? 

You've changed some things so those need to be checked.  Have you performed coil and injector tests?  It sounded like it still didn't start with the 3 bar fuel - but you're saying now it does run? 

Also I saw in your tune you had meth injection.  Is it possible you dumped a bunch of meth into the motor?  I've had the ecu freak out drop comms and stop functioning all together mid pull on boost.  Because the meth system was possible to be active and the output on the ecu grounded when the ecu shut off it poured meth into the intercooler piping.  That made it run like doodoo for a while after the ecu was power cycled and reset on the side of the road with the throttle held wide open to clear out the meth.

Yeah tested the coils and injectors, It did fire on the 3 bar fuel pressure today but it did not run for long before it died.

I will attach a data log from the dyno to this post with the tune from the dyno session.

I also have several other logs and older tunes from doing part throttle tuning on the road after the dyno.

I Dont think its meth related due to the failsafe I have in place and that its not been driven since this fault developed.

dyno.llgx dyno meth map 400.pclx

[koracing]

Looks like both your meth pump and solenoid are on ignition outputs - maybe try unplugging them both to ensure they aren't somehow activating - but if they had when you put 12v onto the 5v maybe it's still in need of clearing the cylinders (pull plugs and crank with WOT while setting the ecu digital input Stop switch to always on).  Your previous log was quite rich right at startup before it died is why I ask.  You can try just holding throttle and see if you get through the startup if it then will idle ok.

[Adamw]

Is the fuel pressure sensor you replaced exactly the same as the other?  Have you got a gauge to confirm the calibration against?  

The log shows the ecu is commanding similar pulse widths but it is running leaner even now with higher fuel pressure than it ever had so there appears to be less fuel making it in for some reason.  Incorrect fuel pressure sensor cal could explain that.  It would pay to check you have full battery voltage on the 12V side of the injector also. 

Below is your old dyno log (pink traces) overlayed with your most recent (coloured traces).  RPM, MAP, fuel table value, target lambda, IAT and batt voltage are all very similar.  The most recent log is a cold start so has 52% post start enrichment active which is the reason for the 0.73 Vs 0.49 effective PW.  It's hard to compare when you dont know how the lambda used to look during a cold start, but assuming it used to cold start ok, and now all fuel calculation inputs are the same except the fuel pressure is 30kpa higher you would expect it to be richer not leaner.  So the fuel press is the most suspicious bit of data to me.  

[koracing]

That lambda reading sure looks suspicious...  The up down it's doing does not seem right to me.  Your VE values in your table are super low in general so if the dead time is a ways off from what the injector actually needs it could be commanding a lot less fuel than it needed as well - which I am guessing is why Adam suggested checking the voltage at the injector.  

[Jed_dc2]

4 hours ago, Adamw said:

Is the fuel pressure sensor you replaced exactly the same as the other?  Have you got a gauge to confirm the calibration against?  

The log shows the ecu is commanding similar pulse widths but it is running leaner even now with higher fuel pressure than it ever had so there appears to be less fuel making it in for some reason.  Incorrect fuel pressure sensor cal could explain that.  It would pay to check you have full battery voltage on the 12V side of the injector also. 

Below is your old dyno log (pink traces) overlayed with your most recent (coloured traces).  RPM, MAP, fuel table value, target lambda, IAT and batt voltage are all very similar.  The most recent log is a cold start so has 52% post start enrichment active which is the reason for the 0.73 Vs 0.49 effective PW.  It's hard to compare when you dont know how the lambda used to look during a cold start, but assuming it used to cold start ok, and now all fuel calculation inputs are the same except the fuel pressure is 30kpa higher you would expect it to be richer not leaner.  So the fuel press is the most suspicious bit of data to me.  

I will check sensor with gauge to confirm and check for 12v at injectors.

do you think I will need to send it back to link ?

Used to cold start great.

3 hours ago, koracing said:

That lambda reading sure looks suspicious...  The up down it's doing does not seem right to me.  Your VE values in your table are super low in general so if the dead time is a ways off from what the injector actually needs it could be commanding a lot less fuel than it needed as well - which I am guessing is why Adam suggested checking the voltage at the injector.  

Im not tuned in VE mode those are not VE values.

Lambda is up and down because it has not warmed up yet.

[Jed_dc2]

My new fuel pressure sensor was faulty After checking with a gauge fuel pressure was closer to 4 bar.

I have reset to 3 bar on gauge and confirmed new sensor is 1 bar out.

Will check injectors for 12v then what next ?

Im not really wanting to tune around the problem as it ran on this calibration before.

[koracing]

11 hours ago, Jed_dc2 said:

Im not tuned in VE mode those are not VE values.

Ok call them whatever you want.   Sorry I couldn't help.

[Adamw]

13 hours ago, Jed_dc2 said:

Will check injectors for 12v then what next ?

The ecu is commanding the same PW so assuming the injectors have the correct voltage and same fuel pressure then you should have the same quantity of fuel injected.  

Did you ever confirm the old fuel pressure sensor that was fitted for the original tune was reading correct?

[Jed_dc2]

6 hours ago, Adamw said:

The ecu is commanding the same PW so assuming the injectors have the correct voltage and same fuel pressure then you should have the same quantity of fuel injected.  

Did you ever confirm the old fuel pressure sensor that was fitted for the original tune was reading correct?

Yes sensor on original tune was correct and pressure was set at 3bar as per data for injectors.

I have since tried 2 direct replacement sensors after connecting a switched 12v to the 5v signal wire and they both read 1 bar less than the gauge does so I think something is up with ECU as its unlikely to get 2 sensors with same fault.

What is procedure for repair in the UK ?

[Adamw]

You can check the sensor voltage matches what the ecu says with a volt meter.  I dont see any clues that suggest anything is wrong with the ecu so far.