Vr4 Link PNP Direct Fire COP

[Anfurnyy]

Looking to move to a Direct Spark and COP setup for my PNP G4+ vr4link. 
It looks like IGN 3 is used for the factory fuel pump relay and IGN 4 is used for the OEM Fuel Pressure solenoid (unused in my car)

Ive read that other PNP ECU's such as the Evo 1-3, have limitations on IGN 4 but wanted to verify if there were any for mine. 
I plan on just moving the fuel pump relay to another output (Aux 2 or Aux 6) and wiring in coils 3 and 4 to IGN 3 and IGN 4 for this setup. Ive looked in the help file and it looks like Aux 2 is able to be used for Fuel pump. 

Will that work?

[Vaughan]

Ignition 4 on the VR4 plugin is fine to use, it uses Injector 6 for the hold power relay instead of ignition 4 like the EVO 1-3 plugin does.

[Anfurnyy]

15 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

Ignition 4 on the VR4 plugin is fine to use, it uses Injector 6 for the hold power relay instead of ignition 4 like the EVO 1-3 plugin does.

Perfect, thanks! Exactly what I needed to know. 

[Anfurnyy]

So moving to a coil on plug system raises another equation.

The 1g DSM/ Vr4 gets it's tach singal from a pin on the Transistor unit for the OEM coil packs. It sounds like it uses the combination of ignition signals of the waste spark system to generate the signal to the ECU and dash 

My question is I planned on deleting the PTU and running the tach signal from the ECU to the factory tach using an AUX output but I can't seem to find out if the factory dash uses a 12v, 5v square wave signal or something else.

Are the Aux output capable of generating that 12v signal on the PNP units? 

[Vaughan]

The Aux outputs are capable of producing a 12V square wave as they pull to ground and have a pullup to 12V

[Anfurnyy]

3 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

The Aux outputs are capable of producing a 12V square wave as they pull to ground and have a pullup to 12V

Okay great, thank you. 

[Anfurnyy]

I wanted to follow up on this. I was able to get the Coil on plug setup installed however the car has a VERY hard time starting. 
Cars fuel pre-crank primes and runs with turning over. 
Verified there's fuel in the cylinder (plugs were wet with fuel)
Verified the Harness at the Coil connector harness is getting 12v on all coils. 
8ga Power wires off remote battery post, to 10amp fuse (not blown), then into relay for harness. Relay is triggered by the ecu switched 12v. 
Relay is chassis grounded
New harness directly to ECU using pins mentioned below, No factory wiring used.
Pulled the Coils each one by one and tested them all one by one for spark, making sure the correct coils were triggering per the "Test coil" in PC link. 
(ign 1 - Cylinder 1, ign 2- cylinder 2, etc) They all had spark I could physically see. 
Verified trigger offset, and verified base timing using the factory CAS. Uses the single OEM trigger wheel. Trigger offset is set at 5 currently which the car ran fine with before. 
 

ignition Config is setup for Direct spark

Wiring is as follows:
Used IGN 1-4 Outputs
Pin 54 - IGN 1 - Formerly IGN 1 & 4
Pin 55 - IGN 2 - Formerly IGN 2 & 3
Pin 56 - Formerly Fuel pump relay pin, Pin 7
Pin 57 - FPR Solenoid Output (unused)

Fuel Pump relay pin moved to Inj 6
Aux 2 Used for Tach output

Things to note:
Car started just fine before coil on plug
it seems its starts most often when i crank it for sometime between 3-4 seconds. It has to be perfect or it wont start. 
Sometime it does pop out the exhaust like the exhaust valves are open during an ignition event. 
I messed with the Injection timing and seemed to get SOME headway. Factory file has injection timing at 320* BTDC, my tuner has mine in a 3d table around that at cranking. I switched the cranking Injection timing to a little more retarded (200* BTDC) and it seemed to start up about 80% of the time. He informed me that this was wrong and it should be more advanced at the lower airflow like while starting and later during cruising and higher airflows. 


Ive attached my current tune file and some trigger scopes of both the car starting and failing to start as well as a log file that i took while trying to start. 
Any insight is appreciated

2nd scope (no start).llg car started scope.llg Anthony Hudelson - Revision 3.2.pclr no start 3 with cop.llg

[Confused]

Try adding or subtracting 360 from your current Trigger Offset. You may be trying to ignite on the exhaust stroke now.

[Anfurnyy]

3 hours ago, Confused said:

Try adding or subtracting 360 from your current Trigger Offset. You may be trying to ignite on the exhaust stroke now.

I tried that but still didn't work for me.

Originally I didn't realize that I had the CAS 180° out. With it flipped and the offset at 5 the car absolutely would not start ever.

Set offset to 360.and the car fired up only after holding it perfectly for that 3-4 seconds.

Fixed the CAS so it is now correct, moved the offset back to 5 and it still only starts if I hold it perfect as mentioned above.

I don't know if some of my cranking fuel/warmup enrichments need adjusted or what. 

[Anfurnyy]

I forgot to add that im also using R35 gtr, Genuine/Real Hitachi coil pack as well. 

[Adamw]

Yeah I think it is probably just fuel related settings.  With petrol on 2200cc injectors your pulse widths are so small there is a very fine balance between getting enough fuel in to get it to fire or completely flooding it.  With wasted spark you had a spark 1 revolution earlier so less chance of "flooding" it.

A couple of comments:

• Your MAP sensor is reading wrong. Fixing this will mess up the rest of your tune however.
• Pre-crank prime of 40ms is a ton for petrol with a 2200cc injector.  40ms is what my evo has for 550cc injectors so I would drop that to about 10ms.
• The "first crank enrich" may be excessive, try that around 50%.  
• In regards to your comment about the injector timing - with large injectors like this you have poor atomisation, lots of liquid and less vapour, injecting later when the valve is open and there is the highest airflow in the port often does give an improvement in this scenario - especially as ethanol content increases.  So if it does help with starting then I would ignore your tuner and give it what works best.  You can add an extra column at 501RPM or whatever so that timing is only later during cranking if you need to. It is also more typical to advance injector timing at higher RPM so not too sure what the tuner is on about here.   

[Anfurnyy]

58 minutes ago, Adamw said:

Yeah I think it is probably just fuel related settings.  With petrol on 2200cc injectors your pulse widths are so small there is a very fine balance between getting enough fuel in to get it to fire or completely flooding it.  With wasted spark you had a spark 1 revolution earlier so less chance of "flooding" it.

A couple of comments:

• Your MAP sensor is reading wrong. Fixing this will mess up the rest of your tune however.
• Pre-crank prime of 40ms is a ton for petrol with a 2200cc injector.  40ms is what my evo has for 550cc injectors so I would drop that to about 10ms.
• The "first crank enrich" may be excessive, try that around 50%.  
• In regards to your comment about the injector timing - with large injectors like this you have poor atomisation, lots of liquid and less vapour, injecting later when the valve is open and there is the highest airflow in the port often does give an improvement in this scenario - especially as ethanol content increases.  So if it does help with starting then I would ignore your tuner and give it what works best.  You can add an extra column at 501RPM or whatever so that timing is only later during cranking if you need to. It is also more typical to advance injector timing at higher RPM so not too sure what the tuner is on about here.   

Thanks for all the insight! I really appreciate it. We haven't made to the cranking enrichment part of the tune yet  but maybe we should have. Those values are from when I was messing with the car initially and I guess I forgot to change them.

I'll look into the MAP sensor issue, it's an AEM 5 bar.

I'll also get the first crank enrich and pre crank primes changed up!

 

Thank you guys, hopefully this helps get it running