Adamw Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 I forgot to bounce this off the firmware guys the other day, it is still showing the same reset issue so I have left myself a note on my desk to ask for advice tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtreme Posted February 1 Author Report Share Posted February 1 Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted February 1 Report Share Posted February 1 Ok, the firmware engineer says the trig 1 state suggests it is small spikes of ignition noise getting into the trigger signal and when these are big enough they will be interpreted as extra "teeth". You have two variations of errors in your scopes, one caused by noise on trig 2 and one caused by noise on trig 1 - so the noise source is likely coming from something that is common to both. These spikes arent always big enough/long enough to be captured in the scope but there are a couple of the more obvious ones shown below and you can see the trigger 1 state resets to idle(0) when these occur. So, a couple of things to look at: Rotor phasing - wind the engine to about 20deg BTDC by hand, pull the distributor cap off and check the rotor is roughly centred under a post in the cap. Sometimes to make it easier to tell, before pulling off the cap you can mark the OD of the distributor with a felt pen where the post sits, then remove the cap and check the rotor is pointing at that mark. If you dont have a 20BTDC mark just guestimate based on the 10deg mark will be close enough. Ignitor ground. The 4AGE ignitor grounds through its body - which is then hanging on a bracket on the coil etc so there is a lot of potential for a poor ground connection. Remove the coil and ignitor, bracket etc, make sure all contact points between the ignitor, bracket and chassis are clean, no paint where it mounts to the body etc. There should be noise filter on the coil power supply somewhere, I dont know where it is physically located but it should be close to the coil, check it is present. TTP 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtreme Posted February 5 Author Report Share Posted February 5 Hi Adam, I sorted out the trigger issue (it was getting the signal noise from the coil). I sorted that out and can get it running but it runs like crap. Timing looks correct with the timing light but it jumps around with the rough idle. I also have to keep playing with the throttle to keep it idling. It sounds like it is running on 2 cylinders. Can you see anything in this starting log I made or in my base map that looks off? Trigger Scope - 2024-02-3 2;50;23 pm.llgxPC Datalog - 2024-02-5 6;25;38 pm.llgx4age base map new.pclx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 You have a very large Inj PW so assuming there is normal fuel pressure I would say possibly just too much fuel. Have you tried adjusting the master fuel? Are plug leads in the correct order? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtreme Posted February 5 Author Report Share Posted February 5 I haven't tried adjusting the master fuel. What would you recommend I try for it? The leads are in the correct order, I just checked them again to make sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 You can adjust it live, just make it smaller while running and see if it starts to smooth out or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtreme Posted February 7 Author Report Share Posted February 7 I have tried adjusting the master fuel and tried other fuel tables from 4age base maps. I have also just verified the ignition timing, valve/cam timing, I have fuel coming out the injectors and have a nice big spark on all plugs. The engine barely gives a kick when cranking. Is there something I am missing? Here is my latest base map and cranking log. (Battery voltage is starting to drop but only after endless cranking today). Edit: I have just ordered a new set of injectors as these only seemed to be dribbling out fuel when testing. They have been problematic in the past and needed ultrasonic cleaning PC Datalog - 2024-02-7 6;22;08 pm.llgx4age base map - modified.pclx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essb00 Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 What injectors are in use on that log? It seems like you still don't have the correct trigger offset. Could you do another cranking trigger scope? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtreme Posted February 7 Author Report Share Posted February 7 I'm running the stock 4age high impedence injectors. I'll have new stock ones to install in a few days. I'll upload a fresh trigger scope tomorrow as it's a bit late now. I have swapped wiring to the reluctor sitting on the cyl no1 post in the distributor and running an offset of -5deg. It is showing -10deg on the timing light when cranking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essb00 Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 -10°, you mean ATDC? BTW, you don't have lambda on the log. Do you have one connected? There's no calibration table selected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtreme Posted February 7 Author Report Share Posted February 7 My ignition timing is set to 10deg BTDC. I have a narrowband O2 sensor but it was turned off for that particular cranking log (I have been trying different settings from different 4age base maps). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koracing Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 I assume you still have the VAST igniter system installed? It may be wise to get rid of that and go to a somewhat newer igniter off of something from the 90s. The VAST system intercepts the crank trigger signal before it goes to the ecu so could be causing some problems. Any 5SFE igniter from 91-95 with distributor should work great (have used these a bit in the past). Only 3 wires are really needed - 12v, IGT signal from ecu, and Output to coil negative. The case of these igniters need to be grounded to the chassis as that is the source for the coil - ground. With the VAST out of the way, you can directly connect the triggers to the ecu wiring. How did you wire your Monsoon in to the 4AGE harness? All the injectors are wired together in the OEM wiring diagrams (basically all one big bank fire), but ideally you would rewire each one individually to the Link. Hope maybe some of this information helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 I dont see much wrong in your most recent log. An offset somewhere close to zero will usually be close enough to start most toyotas with a distributor - this means the G1 or G2 tooth is close to the sensor at TDC, it doesnt mean the injector timing is right but the spark will be somewhere near TDC and the distributor will be sending it to the correct cylinder. If your timing light shows you have a regular spark and it is occurring somewhere close to the timing mark then I would be concentrating more on the fuel side. A squirt of starter fluid when cranking is a quick test to verify that fuel is the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtreme Posted February 10 Author Report Share Posted February 10 I have a 92 model smallport motor with the more modern igniter (I used 3 wires). Pic of igniter is attached. The engine is in an off road buggy, I stripped the entire vehicle loom and made up a new one using the Link loom and the connectors off the Toyota loom. Injectors are all wired independently now. When I had the injector rail removed I tested the injectors with full fuel pressure and they only weeped out. I have new ones on the way early next week. In the meantime I'll spray some starter fluid tomorrow while cranking and see if it fires up koracing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtreme Posted February 12 Author Report Share Posted February 12 New injectors are in and it still would not fire. injectors were firing (tested with a noid light). I got it running on aero start and it ran better when I lowered the master fuel number. it then fired without aero start, and idled. However, after letting it sit for 10 mins it becomes difficult to start and needs heaps of throttle and will then eventually fire up. Timing is sitting at 15deg BTDC on idle. How do these 2 logs look? Is there anything that stands out that could be causing my issue? (please ignore the ECT as I had the wrong input set. The ECT is now reading ok) PC Datalog - 2024-02-12 6;24;43 pm.llgxPC Datalog - 2024-02-12 6;47;27 pm.llgx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koracing Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 If it needs heaps of throttle to fire up after running for 10 minutes, then you're way to rich most likely on your startup settings when warm. If you weren't getting a proper ECT signal at the time then that would explain some of that as the startup settings rely on ECT for one axis of the enrichment tables on just about every table. Did fixing the ECT input help at all? Try large changes to master fuel if not, and see if it improves with a lower number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtreme Posted February 14 Author Report Share Posted February 14 Fixing the ECT sensor didn't help it. Today it wouldn't start at all. I think it is flooded now but besides adjusting the master fuel number down (which I tried numerous numbers) I don't know what else I should be adjusting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 It's not making much vacuum in that most recent log, is the MAP sensor hose connected to a nipple in the plenum and not for example somewhere on the throttle body? What size are the injectors? Has the engine been apart since it last ran or is it a known runner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtreme Posted February 14 Author Report Share Posted February 14 It was a great running engine in an off road race buggy for years until I spun a rod bearing. So I rebuilt the engine and put in some large 284deg cams along with the Link ECU at the same time. I got it running on the stock ECU (it ran rough) before then installing the Link. The internal MAP is connected to the original 4age MAP sensor nipple off the intake manifold. Could the cams be causing the low vacuum? Edit: I forgot to mention that the injectors are stock size 250cc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koracing Posted February 14 Report Share Posted February 14 If it's flooding then the plugs will be wet with fuel. Can you take a log of it cranking now that it won't start? Does it cough or try at all or is it not making any effort to fire? Large duration cams will certainly reduce vacuum at idle by a lot - some engines will idle at only -30kpa or less MGP (70kpa or higher MAP) with larger cams. Do you have a lambda sensor fitted? I see you have on listed on AN Volt 2 input, but there's no calibration set for it. Given a previous spun rod bearing, an oil pressure sensor might be good to add as well with some failsafe strategy built in. I strongly recommend installing (and personally always install on any Link equipped cars in my shop) a fuel pressure sensor which can often aid in trouble shooting, and is great for setting up automatic fuel pressure compensation. Does it try to start any better with a spray of starting fluid still? Until you can get it to idle for more than a few seconds, it's going to be hard to dial in - also without a wideband signal giving some clue it will be very hard to dial in just looking at your data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtreme Posted February 19 Author Report Share Posted February 19 Sorry for the late reply, I haven't had a chance to get back to you until now. I have a narrowband sensor fitted and don't know how to configure it. I plan on adding a wideband sensor soon and adding an oil pressure sensor is a great idea and I will do that too so I don't destroy another engine. As an update; I got it running properly today finally. Whenever it was cranking the trigger wires were getting an intermittent broken signal due to a close proximity of leads and the coil. They are very sensitive and needed to be well clear. I have just ordered a coil on plug conversion kit to make it more reliable. It now starts, idles and stays running well. Log is attached if you are interested. Once the new coils are installed it will be off to the dyno. Thanks all for your help! PC Datalog - 2024-02-19 6;38;48 pm.llgx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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