Ryno Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 Anyone willing to take a look at what I've got and see if there are any obvious issues with my street tuning so far? I got the engine running well for the most part @ 7psi. Goal is to run 1bar later on once I get my current boost tune working correctly. I am using the mixture map to help me get the VE table properly tuned. I have been logging my daily commutes to work and back. I notice my AFR targets are not quite in line on the logs. Is there a better way to dial this in? The mixture map will make changes and the results get me a choppy looking table when viewed in 3d. Is this normal? I don't have access to a dyno at the moment so I am trying make the car safe and useable until I can get a proper tune. Does my master fuel and VE table percentages look to be scaled correctly? Attached is my current tune and a log from this morning. Thanks guys. Tune 9.pclx PC Datalog - 2024-03-20 7;22;22 am.llgx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossobianconero Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 Don't worry about the dyno, you can make a really good fuel table on the road, is just more time consuming. I will just tune it "old" school, just get someone to drive the car for you and you tune the fuel table. Are you going to run knock control? and what boost control are you going to run? TTP 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryno Posted March 20 Author Report Share Posted March 20 21 minutes ago, Rossobianconero said: Don't worry about the dyno, you can make a really good fuel table on the road, is just more time consuming. I will just tune it "old" school, just get someone to drive the car for you and you tune the fuel table. Are you going to run knock control? and what boost control are you going to run? Boost control is set manually as of now. I have not messed around with the knock monitoring in the link settings. Outside elements when driving make it difficult to keep the engine in a complete cell so Ive tried to let the mixture map sample while I focus on the road. These engines are knock limited but most issues are reported over 18psi depending on supporting systems ect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 Note that Closed Loop Lambda Trim value isn't accounted for in the Mixture Map so you will either need to turn off CLL to use Mixture map properly or use a mathblock to calculate what your lambda would have been if without the CLL trim and then use that math block value as the 'lambda' input into the mixture map. You could also turn on the Closed Loop Lambda long term trim table which will slowly fill itself out based on what CLL is doing in each cell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koracing Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 Would still like a user option to to apply LTT table to the base fuel table and then clear the LTT table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossobianconero Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 5 hours ago, Ryno said: Boost control is set manually as of now. I have not messed around with the knock monitoring in the link settings. Outside elements when driving make it difficult to keep the engine in a complete cell so Ive tried to let the mixture map sample while I focus on the road. These engines are knock limited but most issues are reported over 18psi depending on supporting systems ect. I have tune some of those in the past, and I would say that you need knock control when you want to go into power runs, you never know when they are going to be knock. With a good driver you can hold the engine in one cell, but I would say just make "pulls" at X amount of vacuum from low rpms to the limiter and then re adjust the tune until you have it perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlex Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 I've reviewed your map/log..things that stick out - Fuel Table 1: It's traditional mode - it's a g4x, c'mon go modelled mode it's the superior way. modelled mode takes into account the MAP signal in the calculated PW, so you don't have to scale your table out with the boost with perfect accuracy - this can give you more cells to use in the more variable part of the map. if you go over 7000rpm you'll start running very lean and then stop fueling over 7200rpm - that whole column is 0..... checking the mix map against the log you've got some very rich vacuum areas and some quite lean boost areas (which match your AFR target..) AFR targets: The map is targeting a stoich 0 MGP, which is probably not ideal ? -20 is fine stoich though. and 15.5 is a nice place to be for eco cruise. You probably want to target 13:1 AFR at least for the 0+ MGP areas and ideally push to 11.5:1 AFR for a safety factor at 6psi or above. LEAN IS MEAN! Don't be mean.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryno Posted March 21 Author Report Share Posted March 21 Thanks for the tips everyone. I will have to look into the different fueling modes. I don't plan to spin the engine over 7k RPM so I set the 7200 column to zero as a backstop. Maybe it is better to do this on the ignition table? Open to ideas. Am I correct in that I should be tuning the fuel table with functions like CLL IAT correction (basically any fuel adjustments) turned off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlex Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 1 hour ago, Ryno said: Thanks for the tips everyone. I will have to look into the different fueling modes. I don't plan to spin the engine over 7k RPM so I set the 7200 column to zero as a backstop. Maybe it is better to do this on the ignition table? Open to ideas. Am I correct in that I should be tuning the fuel table with functions like CLL IAT correction (basically any fuel adjustments) turned off? Better set a rev limit in the engine protection area - and either delete the 7200 column (in axis configuration) or set it to the same numbers as the 7000 had. CCL IAT correction should absolutely be off in modeled mode, but I'm not sure if that's the case for trad mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossobianconero Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 Like @atlex said, modelled fuel equation is superior to traditional, but I have some problems in the past when we did not have enough sensors to run it correctly. At least you want fuel pressure, the equation request for fuel temperature as well to be accurate, I have done it without the fuel pressure sensor and so many times the fuel system is not doing what it supposed to be doing, so run the fuel pressure sensor. I had never done it without fuel temperature so cant comment on how important is at the end of the day. You will also need a very good information on the injectors, do a 3d table for deadtimes etc. About the lambda target, in general you want to be as lean as possible for power, just put enough fuel to keep it safe, how much? you will have to try on the dyno, but like atlex said, is better to start on the rich side to be safe. Then with everything tune and hitting your lambda target etc, and with you listening for knock, you can try on the dyno and see how much power you are giving away with running rich etc. And also depend of were you are what fuel you run etc, sometimes you will make more power running richer and more timing that running lean with less timing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 11 hours ago, atlex said: modelled mode takes into account the MAP signal in the calculated PW, so you don't have to scale your table out with the boost with perfect accuracy Traditional does this too when Load Source is set to MAP. 3 hours ago, atlex said: CCL IAT correction should absolutely be off in modeled mode, but I'm not sure if that's the case for trad mode. If using charge temp (always on in modelled, can be turned on or off in traditional) then don't use the IAT trim or warmup enrichment. atlex 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryno Posted March 21 Author Report Share Posted March 21 I am not setup with fuel pressure or fuel temp sensors so I suppose I will have to stay with traditional fueling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dx4picco Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 you don't need any of these to run modeled equation. only one of my cars have FP sensor. Leave the traditional fueling alone, and get into the last century with modeled one. atlex 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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