Subaru knock problem

[Ted]

Hi there

after finishing with my tuning with the base maps etc i have tried to fix the knock table.

the problem that i am facing is that i am puting my nmbers in the kno ck table and is retarding where i have bigger numbers.

i have the log files if anyone can understand why is happening.

i am also attaching my map file that i run now on the car

 

I'll be great full if anyone can help me

Log 2018-05-8 9;31;12 pm.llg

TED WITH KNOCK 08052018.pclr

[Ted]

I ve just found that i have a wrong hz in the knock settings... could it be that what was causig it?

i have 6 instead of 13

thanks again

Ted

[Adamw]

5 hours ago, Ted said:

the problem that i am facing is that i am puting my nmbers in the kno ck table and is retarding where i have bigger numbers.

In the screenshot below you can see the knock control system retarding the timing in two areas, first at about 6:07 and then again at 6:11.  

The retard at 6:07 is because Cyl#2 went above the knock threshold.  The retard at 6:11 however appears unexplained as all knock levels are displayed still below the threshold.  The reason for this is due to the way the knock level is displayed/logged, the ECU obviously works much faster in real time but the PC logged/displayed data is only captured at 40Hz and also has some filtering applied.  There would have been a small spike in the knock level above the thresehold in this area but the logging just has not captured it.

2 hours ago, Ted said:

i have 6 instead of 13

If you are still using the narrowband sensor then yes it would be most appropriate to use 13Hz.

 

[Ted]

On 5/10/2018 at 4:31 AM, Adamw said:

In the screenshot below you can see the knock control system retarding the timing in two areas, first at about 6:07 and then again at 6:11.  

The retard at 6:07 is because Cyl#2 went above the knock threshold.  The retard at 6:11 however appears unexplained as all knock levels are displayed still below the threshold.  The reason for this is due to the way the knock level is displayed/logged, the ECU obviously works much faster in real time but the PC logged/displayed data is only captured at 40Hz and also has some filtering applied.  There would have been a small spike in the knock level above the thresehold in this area but the logging just has not captured it.

If you are still using the narrowband sensor then yes it would be most appropriate to use 13Hz.

 

THank you very much for your reply!!

i appreciate!

So, what should i do ?

First i will change the level of the Hz and i will put 13Hz.

But for the problem that causing the retard what do u think from your knowledge should i do??

Thank you in advance

Ted

[Tim D]

Hi, I only skimmed through this post, apologies if you've already fixed this...

 

[Ted]

Hi there again,

thanks for your reply man.

I am stillI having problems with the knock.

I have change the knock Khz to 13.

it still retarding above 5800revs.... and i have on the table 215 and is retarding with 100 and 150 noise.... crazy...

any thoughts???

Please advise cause i dont know what to do.... 

 

i put my logs and the map that i am runing 

thank you in advance

Ted

 

Log 2018-05-11 10;56;47 pm.llg

Log 2018-05-11 11;01;58 pm.llg

TED WITH LESS AVCS & 13KhZ.pclr

and something else i cant see when is retaring the actual advance that i have ........ i mean the effective advance.... in the log i am loging the parameter ignition angle and ignition advance

is it possible that the -4 degrees that the knock is retarding it doesnt effect the whole ignition??

thanks again

 

[Tim D]

Just an idea... Perhaps you could try logging to ECU at 100 Hz, only logging the relevant parameters at this rate though.

Might help to understand whether the PC just can't display/log data fast enough (as Adam was suggesting)?

 

[Ted]

6 hours ago, TimmyD said:

Just an idea... Perhaps you could try logging to ECU at 100 Hz, only logging the relevant parameters at this rate though.

Might help to understand whether the PC just can't display/log data fast enough (as Adam was suggesting)?

Thanks very much for your help man!!

but i think i found it..... the golobal doesnt say exactly what the noise is.... so i ve checked every single cylinder and i found that i have more noise on the 4th cyl....

i mean the no1 no2 no3 have 170noise at full boost at 6000revs and the 4th cyl has 320... thats why is retarding..... 

so i have to check everytime seperate the cylinders.

probably that thing is from an injector problem... cause the engine is new.

i hope i havent cause any problem in the engine cause the max boost i have raised is 1.2 bar.

cross fingers.....

also how can i see the effective advance???? after the knock is retarding ??

 

thanks again

 

Ted

6 hours ago, TimmyD said:

 

 

[GregM]

I'm learning and setting knock control up myself for the first time on, but on an Evo.  If Cylinder 4 is so much higher than the rest, I would have thought you'd turn the gain level on cylinder 4 down, and keep reducing the gain until the knock level all lines up.  For those experts, am I on the right track on what should be done in this situation?

[Richard Hill]

That would depend on whether it is a false knock detection due to noise threshold or actually knock on cylinder 4 . 

As mentioned above it could be a fuel issue.  Try swapping injectors between cylinders and see if the knock moves with the injector.

If it is knock due to ignition then I would retard #4 a degree at a time in the individual cylinder ignition trim table.

 

HTH,

  Richard.

 

 

[Ted]

On 5/13/2018 at 1:26 AM, Richard Hill said:

That would depend on whether it is a false knock detection due to noise threshold or actually knock on cylinder 4 . 

As mentioned above it could be a fuel issue.  Try swapping injectors between cylinders and see if the knock moves with the injector.

If it is knock due to ignition then I would retard #4 a degree at a time in the individual cylinder ignition trim table.

 

HTH,

  Richard.

 

Thanks for your reply Richard,

i believe the some thing too..

tomorrow i will change that injector to see what will happen ... beacause even my external knock sensor it blinks the same time at the same revs..... so i believe nowthat is from an injector.

 

Thanks man,

Ted

On 5/13/2018 at 1:26 AM, Richard Hill said:

 

 

 

[Ted]

Hi there all,

i have made some changes in the injectors to see...

i've change the place of the injector in each cylinder.

But first i measured them ...

i have come up with inj#1 has the highest flow in cc's the 2&3 are a bit down and the #4th is the less in cc's. 

i have made also all the necessary changes in fuel trim to see what will happen and i still have knock on no4 cylinder.. but also now i am having on the #2 also...

can someone tells me what is the real thing??

and i am having different noises in different cylinders in any run BUT in the same aprox revs.....

 

Anyone can help with that??/

is it possible that the noise is just noise and not knock??

the numbers are not crazy high as u can see...

 

i have attach the 4 logs and my map file

 

 

Thanks people !!

Ted 

Log 2018-05-14 11_10_21 pm.llg

Log 2018-05-14 10_10_47 pm.llg

Log 2018-05-14 10_32_00 pm.llg

Log 2018-05-14 10_57_43 pm.llg

TED WITH LESS AVCS & 13KhZ_CEknock.pclr

[Tim D]

For what it's worth, I wrote up my experience of setting up knock control on my Impreza STI 2007.  It's all based on the Link help files... I believe what I have done is correct (comments welcome!)  Feel free to have a look at the attached word doc...

BTW, I found the sound levels of each cylinder to be quite 'noisy', so had to have a fairly large headroom in threshold to prevent false knock detection.

Knock Setup.docx

[Ted]

3 hours ago, TimmyD said:

For what it's worth, I wrote up my experience of setting up knock control on my Impreza STI 2007.  It's all based on the Link help files... I believe what I have done is correct (comments welcome!)  Feel free to have a look at the attached word doc...

BTW, I found the sound levels of each cylinder to be quite 'noisy', so had to have a fairly large headroom in threshold to prevent false knock detection.

Knock Setup.docx

Thank you very much Tim!

I appreciate!\

I will read it now.

Ted

[Ted]

6 hours ago, TimmyD said:

For what it's worth, I wrote up my experience of setting up knock control on my Impreza STI 2007.  It's all based on the Link help files... I believe what I have done is correct (comments welcome!)  Feel free to have a look at the attached word doc...

BTW, I found the sound levels of each cylinder to be quite 'noisy', so had to have a fairly large headroom in threshold to prevent false knock detection.

Knock Setup.docx

i have read what u have done... u r right.

so u believe that the noise that i have is because of the sensitivity that i have in the settings  in some way?

thanks again man for your help

Ted