Fraser Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 Can someone confirm that the attached trigger trace is the WRONG polarity? It goes negative as the tooth approaches which would tell me it's wrong, but if i swap the 2 cores over, it wont start at all. Is there a way in software to invert it or can anyone explain why it wont fire when its physically swapped? Sensor is an OE Renault crank sensor and plug. Fraser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamB Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 Did you re-check base timing after swapping polarity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman_n Posted December 2, 2018 Report Share Posted December 2, 2018 from link g4 manual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted December 3, 2018 Report Share Posted December 3, 2018 Your crank sensor is definitely incorrect polarity in your scope. After swapping wires check that there is RPM displayed during cranking. If there is then as per Cam's comment it is likely just the offset needs calibrating. If no RPM displayed after swapping wires then give us another scope capture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraser Posted December 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 Gents, thanks for the feedback. sorry for the delayed reply. Flat battery, frosty weather, kids...etc... just having a go just now. swapped the wires on the pickup and no RPM sig and no noticeable trigger on the pclink scope. dropped the arming threshold as low as i could and got it to register on the scope - showing a now correct polarity (attached). but i still see no RPM sig. this is a fully charged battery running at normal crank speed. for some reason there is a marked loss of power generated from the pickup when the wires are inverted. what to do now? cheers, Fraser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 What do you have for a cam trigger? If there is no cam trigger then in you trig 2 settings make sure the sync mode is set as none. I'm assuming the ECU has been unlocked also? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraser Posted December 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 Simon. No cam trig used. Engine ran great for months apart from a wandering idle which i was puting down to the inverted crank signal causing the ecu not trigger on the right edge. Since ive tried to get it to run 'right' ive ran into these problems. If i swap it back, it runs fine. Cheers Fraser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 Please attach your tune file Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraser Posted December 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 As requested. File names are self explanatory. cheers, Fraser really good kangoo.pclr trigger play inverted wiring..pclr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted December 6, 2018 Report Share Posted December 6, 2018 Your trigger scope images above do not match the Renualt Clio expected pattern. With the sensor wired backwards the ECU would see an extra "edge" which would make it a closer match thats why it works when it is connected backwards. The Renualt Clio has an odd 60 tooth arrangement, with 1 long tooth then 1 missing tooth. Yours looks like a normal 60-2. Heres a clio: Try the attached file, I have changed it to generic 60-2. You will need to check trigger offset with a timing light but I suspect it will be close enough to start. 281643309_reallygoodkangoo new trigger setup.pclr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraser Posted December 6, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2018 Adam, I followed the help note in the Link manual which advised i had to machine off the double high tooth to a conventional 60-2 arrangement. See me do this here.. I really wanted to keep the trigger un touched so i could use the OE ECU. that's pretty annoying if i didnt have to do that as i cant swap back now without swapping the flywheel... That aside, if the trig pattern is changed to multi/missing 60-2 i should be ok? Will try today (UK) and report back Cheers, Fraser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted December 6, 2018 Report Share Posted December 6, 2018 56 minutes ago, Fraser said: That aside, if the trig pattern is changed to multi/missing 60-2 i should be ok? Yes, that is what I have done in the map I attached above. 58 minutes ago, Fraser said: I followed the help note in the Link manual which advised i had to machine off the double high tooth to a conventional 60-2 arrangement. See me do this here.. That note just says some Clio engines will not run correctly with the Renault Clio triggermode and the solution is to modify it as you have done. This is an old note from before my time so I dont know the reason for it or what causes some to not work or how common that problem is, so chances are it probably didnt need to be modified but anyway at least you have now eliminated any chance of that problem. The only thing you missed is that same note also says to use multi-tooth/missing trigger mode with 60-2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraser Posted December 6, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2018 Fair point. I will try the map changes soon and let you know. Just my luck that it actually ran decent....with wrong polarity, and trigger pattern! or i'd have changed it earlier. Next time the engine is out i'll swap the flywheels back and try. why is the amplitude so much greater with the reversed polarity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraser Posted December 6, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2018 I now have this running beautifully smooth. No more hunting, spitting and stumbling. Thanks for the help. Fraser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyt80 Posted July 26, 2019 Report Share Posted July 26, 2019 Fraser is your Kangoo still running the link? im about to fit an Extreme to a 182 clio and was just looking at info for getting it to run before i go ahead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraser Posted July 26, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2019 Yes. Runs a treat. Using OE ETB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyt80 Posted March 17, 2020 Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 did you run E-throttle on this or convert it to cable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraser Posted March 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2020 I run e-throttle on it. As above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyt80 Posted March 18, 2020 Report Share Posted March 18, 2020 Perfect I'm just away to start only 182 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spranker Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 On 12/5/2018 at 11:39 PM, Fraser said: Simon. No cam trig used. Engine ran great for months apart from a wandering idle which i was puting down to the inverted crank signal causing the ecu not trigger on the right edge. Since ive tried to get it to run 'right' ive ran into these problems. If i swap it back, it runs fine. Cheers Fraser Hi man.. Are you using oe ignition coils?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraser Posted January 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 No. There is no ignitor on the OE coil Spranker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 You can still run the stock coils, you will just need an external ignitor. 2Channel if it is the 4 tower wasted spark coil, or 4 channel for COP. Often however it is just easier and cheaper to convert to some other coil with built in ignitors. Spranker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spranker Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 On 1/16/2021 at 9:25 PM, Fraser said: No. There is no ignitor on the OE coil On 1/16/2021 at 11:55 PM, Adamw said: You can still run the stock coils, you will just need an external ignitor. 2Channel if it is the 4 tower wasted spark coil, or 4 channel for COP. Often however it is just easier and cheaper to convert to some other coil with built in ignitors. Thanks guys.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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