Adamw
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Posts posted by Adamw
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yeah, -84 or 636 would work. Now that I'm on a PC again I notice also now your trigger 2 is a bit messed up with a funny double hump - that may be causing an issue too. Did you reverse the wires at the sensor end or the ecu end of the loom?
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Did u re-sync timing using a timing light? If that is ok then possibly the sync tooth is now offset to the other side of the the gap which means you are 360deg out.
so if you have done trigger cal already and it's not firing then add 360 to your trigger offset number
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RPM glitches and Timing scatter are common symptoms of trigger errors. In your case because of the wrong polarity the ecu is seeing 59 teeth every revolution instead of the 58 that it is expecting. Every so often it will lose track of position and "skip".
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It seems Scott hasnt posted today so I just got on a PC. Your crank sensor is definitely wired the wrong way. Swap the wires and re-do your base timing (trigger cal) and you should be good to go. You shouldnt need to change the trigger 2 settings as per Integral8v's comment, I'm pretty sure it should be fine the way you have it set. If not we can always try the "trigger priority" setting.
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Hopefully @Scott will chime in, I'm viewing on my cell phone so cant see clearly but it looks to me like your crank sensor is wired back to front.
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Could you do a trigger scope also. I suggest run the engine at about 2000RPM then hit capture. Save it and post a screenshot here.
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Cam tooth position doesn't matter (except for what I said earlier, try not to have it occur close to the missing teeth).
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I thought the idea of the missing tooth was to signal TDC,
Yes it is a reference to TDC, but it doesn't need to occur at TDC.
Or am I right in thinking that with a Link, the ecu just needs to see a signal gap (missing tooth). If the missing tooth is at 90 BTDC, does the ECU have a programmable offset because if i want my #1 spark plug to fire at TDC, and my signal is 90 degrees out then my firing time will be wrong.
You set your trigger offset in the software (calibrate trigger menu). This is the angular distance the crank must rotate from the first tooth after the gap to TDC. However you don't need to measure anything, just take a guess then crank it with a timing light on and adjust until the marks line up. More info in the help file and it will make more sense when you actually do it.
The standard engines that I usually work on have the TDC signal at TDC. I cant figure out why it is different with aftermarket ECU's.
I think you will find the vast majority of OEM triggers that use missing tooth wheels, the gap is never at TDC. Ford's favourite for instance is usually 90ATDC. There are many reasons, one I already mentioned is the crank acceleration near TDC, another is if your missing tooth is in an area where your ignition event must occur (say 0-45°BTDC) there is the possibility that it would be less accurately positioned since there is no tooth to reference.
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On a 4 cylinder the ideal location for the missing teeth to pass the sensor is somewhere near 90° BTDC (or 90 ATDC is good too). In reality it will work pretty much anywhere with an engine like yours but the suggestion of 90 deg will give the most reliable detection under conditions when crankshaft speed variation is worst such as cranking when you have a flat battery. As the piston approaches TDC the crank "slows down" and that can make it more difficult to detect a missing tooth if it is near TDC.
If you are going to have a single sync tooth on the cam as well then the only rule for this one is you don't want it occurring at the same time as your missing tooth.
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I didn't look at every gear change in the log but it appears for most of them you are lifting off the throttle so it is below the TP low lockout. For now you could put the TP lockout to zero for testing (FYI, normally in real life you would want this above about 70%). If you are sure you have tried to shift with the throttle open and it felt like it just wasn't going to let you then I would say try less "start shift validation time" and possibly lower the upshift force setting.
To get to the bottom of it I think you need to log more channels. Gear shift status, AN-6, % fuel cut, would be the main ones needed on top of what you have.
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Actually, just looking closer at this, I reckon the 1UZFE example above taken from the help is incorrect. I just timed this out on a chart and there is no sense in the way it is shown. So I think they have the pairs correct but 3rd and 4th drivers are swapped around.
So for your LSX, with firing order 1,8,7,2,6,5,4,3, I reckon do it like this;
Inj# 1 = Cyl 1&4
Inj# 2 = Cyl 8&3
Inj# 3 = Cyl 7&6
Inj# 4 = Cyl 2&5
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24-1 will do nicely. Even 12-1 would work well.
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Yes, choose sequential mode if your wiring is done like this.
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Best option would either to be keep the 2 teeth
Two teeth on crank alone will not be enough for the engine to run (unless it is single coil with a distributer), since it will not know which tooth is cyl 1&4 and which is 2&3.
If you want to do direct ignition or wasted spark you will need to change either to a crank trigger wheel with missing teeth (would allow wasted spark) or you could stick with the two tooth wheel but you would need to add a single "sync" tooth to the camshaft or distributor (would allow seq or wasted spark).
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What about wiring? I mean which injectors to pair for sequental mode? I assume, if firing order is 1-8-7-2-6-5-4-3, then ijectors are wired same way: inj 1-8 to channel1 and so on
From the help file:
Your firing order is different but just follow the pattern. i.e Drive #1 goes to cyl 1 & 4, Drive#2 goes to cyl 8 & 3 etc.
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for injection, group fire staged, right?
No, staged would be for when you have primary and secondary injectors.
For a V8 with a Atom you can use either "Multi-point Group" mode (4 injectors will be fired at a time) or "Sequential" mode (actually will be semi-sequential on a V8) which might work a little better. With Semi-sequential you have 2 injectors fired together - normally adjacent cylinders in the firing order so these can be timed better with valve opening etc.
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So am I not right in thinking that because of the 0.140" hg spacer it will be running richer? I'm just thinking its got considerably less compression so it won't be as efficient?
No I dont expect the lower compression and less squish will make a big difference to idle and low load VE. The biggest effects will be the difference in capacities, the different valve timing and the different injectors. Tweak your master fuel a little more.
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Checking that the timing is stable over a range of RPM is a quick and easy verification that VR polarity is correct. I just took a quick look over your map, it mostly appears to be a reasonable starting point. One suggestion however; set idle control to open loop for now. Closed loop takes a fair bit of work to get right and there is no point messing with it until most of the other tables are fully tuned.
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I wouldnt expect the head gasket spacer to effect things too much at light loads and idle etc.
Have you done the trigger calibration already? With timing locked does the timing drift when you rev it? Do you have stock injectors?
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LOL, just a few minor tweaks...
Too make that list a bit easier to decipher, here's a few of the bigger changes that I remember off the top of my head, in no real order;
- Traction control.
- Configurable CAN.
- Modelled fuel Equation.
- Much better logging.
- Trigger Scope.
- More Table allocations - much more flexibility with virtual Aux's etc.
- OBD2
- Internal knock control (cant remember if old G4 xtreme had this)
- DBW
So unless you can get an old G4 at an exceptional price then it would be a no brainer to go for the G4+ to most buyers. Of course there is still development on-going with the G4+ too so there is always the possibility of more new features being added.
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Good news. That's a pretty odd problem you had there, I still cant quite work out how that relay would have had such an effect. I know a relay coil collapse would give a short sharp voltage spike but yours seems too long for that. Maybe it was effecting alternator control somehow too.
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One thing to confirm is if the Atom can accept a CAN input, in the software it appears to be supported but I don't see CAN mentioned on the Atom web page anywhere.
The famous innovate E8 error is because they drive the sensor in a completely different way than it was ever designed to be. It seems to work ok for some people but the innovate system is very sensitive to heat and in my experience it seems sensitive to many other odd factors such as high exhaust gas velocities. I haven't used the new Link CAN one yet but I expect they will follow the more traditional Bosch recommended control techniques so you should have no drama with temperature anymore. If you really want to know you can google the Bosch "LSU 4.9 datasheet" and that specifies maximum temperature limits but normally something like 500mm from turbine exit will be fine. From memory the max continuous temp is 930°C.
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Actually the coils probably don't like 20V either and something odd may be going on with the spark due to this...
Random high engine rpm data logging
in G4+
Posted · Edited by Adamw
typo
Hi Itegrale8v, I thought I would explain my thoughts behind that comment better in case it came across that I was being rude to you... I'm not dismissing your idea or experience, I can certainly see that this could be a problem trigger in some cases and your suggestion might be the easiest work around. In this case however there was an obvious problem (wave form upside down) and I think it is more important to get the basics right first and not change too many things at once.
The issue I have with setting a Hall type input with a VR sensor is based only on my generic ECU knowledge and may not be specific to Link but it usually isnt a good idea. A VR input circuit is usually designed to cope with about 100V AC, whereas a Hall circuit is typically only designed to handle about battery voltage. We can see from the trigger scope pics that the OP's cam sensor is already putting out a healthy 4V at just cranking speeds, this voltage will increase by about 10X by redline. So, how long will Link's hall circuit accept short 40V pulses for... I dont know, maybe forever, maybe not. But if he did end up frying his input circuit because he was using it in a non recommended way then the warranty could certainly be void etc. The link dealers you talked of might have scoped it at high RPM and had enough confidence that it would be ok, but its not something I would recommend for every user without careful testing and consideration.
I have never touched one of these engines but there are quite possibly other methods you could use to move the two trigger events apart also. For instance you could grind one more tooth off the crank trigger to make it 60-3. And/or you could grind one side of the cam tooth a little so that the wave form gets shifted sideways, or something like an offset key for the crank pulley...