zwhitebread Posted October 22, 2019 Report Share Posted October 22, 2019 I am in need of some help. I am using a Fury Ecu to run a Subaru EZ36. The engine is essentially stock and is tunes for 93 octane. I am having issues with this setup when I am running with the engine and using the AVCS. The car will cut out at random RPM's (anywhere from 4000 to 6500) and it feels like it is hitting the rev limiter. If I lock out the AVCS the car will run fine and revs all the way every time. The problem is very erratic. Has anyone else out there had similar issues? Has anyone else ever ran the EZ36 with a Link system? Any help will be appreciated. Thanks, Zach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj Posted October 22, 2019 Report Share Posted October 22, 2019 Which cam are you using for trigger 2? It should be left inlet cam (ie passenger side on an RHD vehicle) Can you run a trigger scope and check the polarity is correct on cam + crank sensor. Wrong polarity on either trigger can cause limiter-ish feeling behaviour like you describe. Should be consistent regardless of VVT but worth checking. What settings have you got for Trigger2 VVT? Have you got a log of either fault happening? it would be interesting to look at the reported VVT positions at the time it faults, and if any triggering errors a present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted October 22, 2019 Report Share Posted October 22, 2019 I would also lean towards it being a trigger problem. Do us a triggerscope with the intake cam fully home then another with it fully advanced (just above idle will be fine). That may give us some clues where the problem is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zwhitebread Posted October 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2019 I was suspecting a possible trigger error as well but i havent found anything that looks off to me, but this is also my first time getting this deep into wiring in an ecu so i could be missing something. Trigger 2 is connected to the left hand intake cam position sensor. Trigger Scope Log 2019-10-21 idle.llg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 Looks ok so far. Can you grab 2x more scope captures please - one with your current tune but hold rpms at about 5k where you see that misfire issue, and then for the second one, please set the VVT inlet target table to 30/40/whatever is max @ ~2500rpm and then run another scope capture at just over 2500rpm so we can see if anything changes on the triggering when the cam fully advances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zwhitebread Posted October 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2019 Let me know if there is anything else that will help. Thanks! Trigger Scope Log 2019-10-23 5k.llg Trigger Scope Log 2019-10-23 VVT Inlet test.llg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted October 24, 2019 Report Share Posted October 24, 2019 Im not convinced that your problem is related to the trigger, but those two higher RPM triggerscopes show the crank waveform is starting to get very distorted and the low level voltage of the cam sensor is creeping up. It still looks usable at least at the time these scopes were taken, but it is definitely not normal. How it this thing wired? Is it a modified factory loom or has it got a custom loom? Piggy back? Can you do a PC log of it driving and capture the misfire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Burnett Posted October 24, 2019 Report Share Posted October 24, 2019 Can you do us a favor and attach a calibration file here? Everyone is just making guesses with out actually looking at the cal file. Could be something quite simple as a stupid gear cut that is not configured correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zwhitebread Posted January 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 I know its been a while but I had some other issues with the car and have been busy at work. I'm still having similar issues to what was happening in the beginning of this post. I'll fill you guys in on what has changed on the car and then upload a cal file and log file from the race I did this past weekend. So to start with I went through the wiring on the car as I did not do a lot of it (which was my own dumb fault). I found that the people that wired it had not used shielded wire going to the cam position sensors (Note: The cam position sensor used for the trigger did use shielded cabling). So I rewired it using the shielded cabling. Another thing worth noting is that my engine developed rod knock, so I have changed the engine alone with the all of the sensors. As far as the wiring goes, the VVT system is all wired in directly to the ecu via the custom wiring loom. The rest of the loom is connected to the original engine loom to run the injection and ignition systems. The engine was recently tuned by a fairly reputable local tuner. Last thing worth noting is that at this race, the car ran great for the first three stages, and then started to do the cut again. Its random and doesn't seem to correlate to bumps, corners, or fuel level. And after letting it sit all night it did it again right away and the car never got hot, so I don't think it has anything to do with heat. Let me know if you guys need any other info and i appreciate any help. thanks, Zach Snodrift day 2 2020.zip Zachs car EZ36 current.pclr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cj Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 Theres quite a few things going on here. There is still something trigger related going on. Notice that your rpm is 16K (which then hits rpm limit), and all 4 cam's are showing "extra pulse". There are times when some or all of the cams report extra pulses even when the rpm (from trigger1) doesnt jump, so its not just that trigger1 goes nuts and causes the cam signals to be invalid relative to trigger1. There are instances of this all over your log. Have you checked the wiring & connectors for the crank trigger are shielded? You havent logged error counts, so I cant tell if its a bug or something gone into lockout, but your exhaust cams are both uncontrolled despite having what looks like a valid config. Note the EX duty cycles are stuck at 30% for the entire log, and the exhaust angles dont follow the target table at all. Your intake cams follow the target under load, but not at the bottom end. Find anywhere on decel or near idle and both intake cams report 8-10* instead of the 1* listed in the target table. This all assumes your map was the same when you took these logs. You havent logged targets for the cams so i've had to assume the table numbers were the target values. Your tuner appears to have misunderstood how ignition idle control works - its absolute values, not additive, so you are idling at -3* and so i'm guessing because of this, your ethrottle is set 7% open at idle. This should probably be more like 3.5% at idle and your ignition idle table changed to have 18 ish as the "zero" column. If its only a race car this doesnt really matter but it would help on a street car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zwhitebread Posted January 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 I uploaded the wrong file for the cal file. This is the correct one. This should fix most of the issues with the cams. The exhaust cam is supposed to be locked at one position and the inlet table has changed. This car is a race car as far as the idle goes and Im not sure if the tuner changed what the previous tuner had for the ignition idle. As far as the cam position errors and high rpms, I noticed those, but i cant figure out the cause. The crank position sensor is using the Trigger one wire from the Link universal wiring loom which im assuming is shielded, but I also followed the wiring back and it appears that the cable had be cut and re-spliced (or at least thats what im assuming as there is shrink wrap over one spot). Maybe thats the issue? Is there anything else that i should be checking? The one other thing I noticed was that the arming threshold (uploaded below). looking at trigger scopes that i took and reading the trigger arming section i believe it should be more like 1k - 2.5v, 2k - 3.0v, 3k+ - 3.5v. Could this be the difference? My knowledge on this stuff is fairly limited so im not sure how much difference the trigger arming voltages can make. Zachs EZ36 - boosted tuning.pclr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted January 28, 2020 Report Share Posted January 28, 2020 Since you've changed wiring etc, can you give us a couple of fresh trigger scopes, one around 5000RPM will be good. Trigger and camshaft positions are def not happy for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zwhitebread Posted January 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2020 OK. I uploaded a 2k and a 5k. Trigger Scope 5k.llg Trigger Scope 2k.llg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 Looking at your trigger scope closer today I notice your trigger 2 signal is inverted compared to what the ecu is expecting. How sure are you that it is the LH Inlet cam sensor that is connected to trigger 2 pin? The reason I ask is from what I can tell, the LH exhaust signal is meant to be inverted like your trigger 2. So maybe the inlet/exhaust are wired to the wrong pins? Or maybe the exhaust/inlet sensors are fitted in the wrong holes? (I dont know if they are the same part number/interchangable?) Im not sure if this is the problem or not yet but many VVT trigger modes use a "level" for sync rather than the edge so it may not be just as simple as changing the edge setting to rising. @Simon, could you confirm with engineering if this scope would work correctly with the EZ36 triggermode - trigg 2 is inverted compared to the sim and Link documentation, seems to loose sync when the cam advances? I suspect this decoder may use a level sync or edge count that is failing due to the inverted signal. Will swapping trigger 2 edge setting work for this mode? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zwhitebread Posted January 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 Something I notice in the wiring section is that under the trigger section it has the Cam potion sensor wired with no 12v, but when I got into the VVT section in output wiring it has one of the pins on the cam position sensor wired to 12V. I currently have it wired so that the cam position sensor has 12v to one input. Can anyone verify which would be correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 The EZ motor needs the 12V the EJ sensors shown above are different to your application. You need 12V supply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zwhitebread Posted January 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 OK. Thanks for verifying. That is how they are wired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 16 hours ago, Adamw said: Looking at your trigger scope closer today I notice your trigger 2 signal is inverted compared to what the ecu is expecting. How sure are you that it is the LH Inlet cam sensor that is connected to trigger 2 pin? The reason I ask is from what I can tell, the LH exhaust signal is meant to be inverted like your trigger 2. So maybe the inlet/exhaust are wired to the wrong pins? Or maybe the exhaust/inlet sensors are fitted in the wrong holes? (I dont know if they are the same part number/interchangable?) Im not sure if this is the problem or not yet but many VVT trigger modes use a "level" for sync rather than the edge so it may not be just as simple as changing the edge setting to rising. @Simon, could you confirm with engineering if this scope would work correctly with the EZ36 triggermode - trigg 2 is inverted compared to the sim and Link documentation, seems to loose sync when the cam advances? I suspect this decoder may use a level sync or edge count that is failing due to the inverted signal. Will swapping trigger 2 edge setting work for this mode? You could try changing the edge on trig 2 but that trigger scope looks almost spot on to what is expected. (EZ30 differs in polarity but falling edge is in same spot) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zwhitebread Posted January 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 So you are saying maybe try changing from falling edge to rising edge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted January 30, 2020 Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 Trig 2 falling to rising is worth a shot. I suspect its not going to be better but it is something you can try easy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zwhitebread Posted January 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 Would there be anything else that would change or need to be changed when this setting is switched? or will everything else function as before (vvt target tables, ect) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zwhitebread Posted January 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2020 And if i switch it on trigger 2 should i also be switching it on the other cam position sensors? or leave them as falling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zwhitebread Posted February 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2020 So I wasn't convince that the issue wasn't a stupid wiring issue because I didn't wire the car myself and I don't trust the people who wired it, so i finally rewired the entire car. Here are a couple trigger scopes that i took after this. I have not had a chance to take the car out and test and see if it is still misfiring. Do these trigger scopes look better than previous ones? 2020 rewire 3k.llg 2020 rewire 5k.llg 2020 rewire idle.llg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted March 2, 2020 Report Share Posted March 2, 2020 The trigger scopes dont look a whole lot different - although they never looked bad. I dont think we will know if there is still a problem until you drive it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zwhitebread Posted March 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2020 Well there was no noticeable cuts in the test that i did. Although before my last race i did a bunch of testing and never had any problems until I got there so im still a little worried about it. I uploaded a short log of a pull that i did and i noticed that the LH intake had some errors when it hit the RPM limiter. There was also a couple of Trig 1 errors. Is this a normal? If not any ideas on what some issue could be? The other question with this is my RPM limit is supposed to be set to 6900 and in this log the rpm limiter actives at 6450. The limit control range is set to 50 so why would it kick in so early? thanks 3-5-2020 test 2.llg Zachs EZ36 - boosted tuning.pclr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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