Timing Light not firing?

[Clattie]

I've logged my PDM and my coils seem to be firing in a decent regulated pattern during cranking and they are pulling about 0.76A peak. Now on my ecu log during cranking all ignition outputs are active but my duty and frequency don't change what so ever.

Any ideas? I'm assuming my timing light isn't firing because the coils are not producing enough volts or something like that?

Coil Testing 3.llgx

[essb00]

Attach the tune file (*.pclx) where you captured that log.
What coils are you using?

[Clattie]

10 minutes ago, essb00 said:

Attach the tune file (*.pclx) where you captured that log.
What coils are you using?

Will do, I'm using 1ZZ-FE coils from an MR2 Parts company but I'm not sure if they are genuine pencil coils as they are around £70 for 4

File link - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ANse9LUssZsBUjJCFDbMvVtfWAWWpzKT/view?usp=drive_link

[Adamw]

Frequency and duty will only be reported for ignition drives in aux modes.  There is dwell being commanded in the log so the ecu is commanding a spark.  You can pull a spark plug out to physically confirm a spark to rule out the timing light.  

[Clattie]

So everything looks good then? Maybe it is just the timing light, have you got any recommendations on a decent timing light as everything seems to be Chinese.

I'll pull the plugs out tomorrow and see if they spark.

[Adamw]

Confirm that is the actual problem before buying a new one.  It could be a bad ground or the coil 12V disappearing in start position or many other reasons. 

Do you have the timing light clamped to an HT lead between the coil and plug?

[Clattie]

 

13 minutes ago, Adamw said:

Confirm that is the actual problem before buying a new one.  It could be a bad ground or the coil 12V disappearing in start position or many other reasons. 

Do you have the timing light clamped to an HT lead between the coil and plug?

Will do, coils are all grounded to the head, why would 12v disappear during cranking?

Yes, I've clamped it to a coil on plug extension lead with it facing correctly. I have actually had the car started very lumpy but my settings never saved, I came around to resetting the ignition timing again a few weeks later. Still, my timing light was very intermittent and now doesn't seem to work at all.
I've also clamped it to the coil loom and I'm getting nothing from that either.

Note - My coils are grounded to the same bolt on the head as my ecu if that makes any difference.

[DerekAE86]

27 minutes ago, Clattie said:

Maybe it is just the timing light

Put it on another known good/running car. Preferably one with HT leads to confirm the timing light works.

[Clattie]

2 hours ago, DerekAE86 said:

Put it on another known good/running car. Preferably one with HT leads to confirm the timing light works.

Never even thought about that! I'll give that a go!

[Peace]

Try borrowing another timing light. I got fancy US-made timing light which cannot detect spark on cranking due to low starter RPM (i have an RB engine), but when the engine is running it detects it right away.
So i have to use cheap chinese timing light to calibrate my triggers on starter

[Clattie]

So I tested the timing light on a new 2022 Audi a1, and it worked perfectly... Any ideas?

I also noticed fault code 77 which was a tracking fault on the APS, How can I resolve that issue? I've taken a log via manual calibration and a log after auto-calibration. I gave it some leeway with the manual calibration but nothing changed.

Manual Calibration (Manual Voltages) - https://drive.google.com/file/d/14FoR0uU3gl8mKhAGy61kyiSC4WnMrm7K/view?usp=sharing
After Auto-Calibration (using the calibration tool) - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vJVsvpcUKATjgVKSUGwc_1DI78wRMOCp/view?usp=sharing
 

[Adamw]

On 7/25/2023 at 8:46 AM, Clattie said:

I'll pull the plugs out tomorrow and see if they spark.

Did you do this yet?

 

48 minutes ago, Clattie said:

I also noticed fault code 77 which was a tracking fault on the APS, How can I resolve that issue?

Hard to tell without the map, but since the accumulator counts up when you push on the pedal and recovers when at zero, my guess would be the AP Sub 100% setting is not set to 100. 

[Clattie]

8 minutes ago, Adamw said:

Did you do this yet?

 

Hard to tell without the map, but since the accumulator counts up when you push on the pedal and recovers when at zero, my guess would be the AP Sub 100% setting is not set to 100. 

So my timing light is working again, randomly... 

 

Yes I think it's set alot lower so that would explain things, I'll have a look at that when I'm home! Cheers Adam

 

 

[Clattie]

Yep the AP Sub was set to 66%, that solves all the problems! cheers Adam.
On a side note though, what does that percentage value do? Wouldn't you want it at 100% all the time?

[koracing]

On 7/24/2023 at 2:10 PM, Clattie said:

 

Will do, coils are all grounded to the head, why would 12v disappear during cranking?

Yes, I've clamped it to a coil on plug extension lead with it facing correctly. I have actually had the car started very lumpy but my settings never saved, I came around to resetting the ignition timing again a few weeks later. Still, my timing light was very intermittent and now doesn't seem to work at all.
I've also clamped it to the coil loom and I'm getting nothing from that either.

Note - My coils are grounded to the same bolt on the head as my ecu if that makes any difference.

I believe your coil grounds need to be on a separate bolt ideally 6-8" away from the ecu grounds.  Any separation is better than none, however.

[Clattie]

20 minutes ago, koracing said:

I believe your coil grounds need to be on a separate bolt ideally 6-8" away from the ecu grounds.  Any separation is better than none, however.

Nice I'll do that tonight, can you explain why for my own educational purposes?

[koracing]

My memory is fuzzy on where I picked up this information, but I believe it was due to the possibilty of flyback voltage spikes or noise on the ground without something like a large amount of metal between the two.  I could be remembering incorrectly, however, as a lot of ecu manufacturers recommend using a start point single ground on the engine block or head.

[Clattie]

38 minutes ago, koracing said:

My memory is fuzzy on where I picked up this information, but I believe it was due to the possibilty of flyback voltage spikes or noise on the ground without something like a large amount of metal between the two.  I could be remembering incorrectly, however, as a lot of ecu manufacturers recommend using a start point single ground on the engine block or head.

Wouldn't my setup be fine then? I've got both my ECU and coil grounds attached to a single bolt on the engine head. 

[Adamw]

21 hours ago, Clattie said:

On a side note though, what does that percentage value do? Wouldn't you want it at 100% all the time?

Some APS and TPS sub sensors dont cover the full range of movement, they might stop reading at 70% for example, so in this example you would set it to 70%.  Since yours reads the full range of motion it needs to be set to 100%. 

[koracing]

On 7/28/2023 at 8:50 AM, Clattie said:

Wouldn't my setup be fine then? I've got both my ECU and coil grounds attached to a single bolt on the engine head. 

Theoretically it should work, but it should be noted that those star point recommendations also have a ground wire from that point directly to the battery which I'm certain you don't have unless you've added one.  The Link *is* suceptible to ignition noise, however, so separating them may offer some help.