ls joker Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 hey guys, ive been a lurker for a few months now. ive had my tuner send me over a basemap but i continue to have issues with the engine not wanting to start up. setup is a turbo b16 on 1300cc injectors. ignition converted to COP. coils and injectors have been tested from the ecu testing option. spark has been visually verified. im having a hard time finding where my issues are. another pair of eyes outside of my tuners would be great. i was told my trigger2 needed to be lowered or the filter turned up. in which both have been done below are basemap file, and three triggerscope logs. number four being the most recent. i also had the spark plugs in scope four as i was trying to start the engine. im hoping adam or someone can see exactly what is happening thanks in advance for the help PURE BASE V2.pclx Trigger Scope4.llgx Trigger Scope2.llgx Trigger Scope1.llgx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 Trigger scope 1 shows no data but 2 and 4 show triggers. Have you got a PC Log taken while trying to start it? have you used a timing light to confirm trigger offset? I would probably set trigger 1 threshold to 0.5V in the 500rpm cell but it does seem to be receiving triggers properly as is. What coils are you using? are they smart or dumb coils? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ls joker Posted January 21 Author Report Share Posted January 21 last week i was trying to set the trigger offset while cranking the engine with the plugs out. however my timing light barely showed any triggering. it was super inconsistent. email my tuner about it. and he says it should still start up anyway. and the offset would be able to be set afterwards. he requested triggerscope. says trigger 2 has noise. try lowering the voltage in certain cells or raise the filter. i did both, but there was no change. coils are k coils that tested on the ignition low frequency output test. they were previously operationally on my hondata s300. for some reason now when i open up one of my maps on pc link, everything is blank. like there hasnt been any work put onto it. but ill try to upload the log when it wouldnt start basemap no start.llgx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted January 21 Report Share Posted January 21 That log shows it is attempting to run, dwell times are changing and an injector pulse width is shown. How did you have your timing light connect to the coils? it is recommended to use an ignition lead between the coil and the spark plug for the purpose of getting trigger offset. If you are opening your tune by double clicking on the file and then PCLink opens but doesn't have an ECU settings menu on the left this is a bug in a recent PCLink where it doesn't pass the file name through properly and going file -> open and selecting the file will work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ls joker Posted January 22 Author Report Share Posted January 22 To properly capture the spark from the ignition system, an old spark plug wire was fitted to in the coil. Then that end taped up. With the other end on the spark plug Ive opened up pclink. Then went to layouts. Then clicked on open default layout, and everything was set to how it was prior. I really dont understand what is happening all of a sudden. Even on the main desktop, the icons are all white now. The image is gone. Trying to open a file from my documents like before says i need to choose a format to use. Then says find a version for your pc, check with the softwars publisher. This has legit been fine up until about two hours ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted January 22 Report Share Posted January 22 That is odd, have seen layout getting corrupted occasionally previously but never all the icons going white, may be best to uninstall and reinstall PCLink. If you haven't already I would recommend setting trigger 1 threshold to 0.5V in the 500rpm cell and re trying trigger calibration with all of the spark plugs out and only cylinder 1 spark plug connected but grounded to the head or block somewhere instead of being in the cylinder. A faster crank will make it easier to get a good reading with the timing light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerace_fab Posted January 22 Report Share Posted January 22 When you switch to coil on plug with a hc92x i can almost guarantee that your trigger offset is wrong and needs to be in the range of 250-257 I tune countless B-series engines and make / sell C.O.P kits for link ecu's. shoot me over a PM and I can help you out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ls joker Posted January 22 Author Report Share Posted January 22 I have already changed the tirgger1 voltage for that cell and saved it. But yet to stord it to the ecu. Is there a reason why i see other trigger arming thresholds with a cell rpm low as zero? But i cant adjust the axis the axis at all. Could that be the reasoning? Because the RPMs are too low, away from the first cell. Also yes, i was thinking of unistalling, then reinstalling the program while in the shower. Suppose im burnt out Aerace fab, Ive tried setting the trigger offset with the plugs out while cranking. Base timing lock screen open at 16 degrees. Offsets all the way from 0 to 360, in increments of 10 degrees. Ignition delay at 0. Not once did it attempt to start. At 294 degrees, the timing light blinked a few times consecutively. But nowhere near my 16 degree crank mark. Then my battery started to quit. Can someone confirm if my fuel crank settings are decent enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted January 22 Report Share Posted January 22 6 minutes ago, ls joker said: I have already changed the tirgger1 voltage for that cell and saved it. But yet to stord it to the ecu. Is there a reason why i see other trigger arming thresholds with a cell rpm low as zero? But i cant adjust the axis the axis at all. Could that be the reasoning? Because the RPMs are too low, away from the first cell G4+ had a zero cell, G4X has a 500 cell (from an early firmware onwards) The reason for this was the linear interpolation between 0 and 1000rpm could cause issues so it was better to have 0-500 all being the same value and then interpolating between 500 and 1000rpm. It will not be the source of any issues. As a side note on that though your ECU firmware version is an older one and isn't one of the official released ones so I would strongly recommend updating that to the latest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ls joker Posted January 22 Author Report Share Posted January 22 Okay thanks vaughan. For the firmware update, i will need to be contected to ecu. Click on options. Then update firmware correct? If you dont mind me asking, how did i even get my g4x plug on an unoffical release firmware package? What are the differences in the offical ones? If neccesary, we could talk about it over a PM. Outside of that, i take it you see no issue why it doesnt want to start? My tuner said the same thing from looking at the logs and scopes. Im pretty sure he knows my craftmanship is quality. Where it shouldnt be a concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted January 22 Report Share Posted January 22 1 hour ago, ls joker said: Outside of that, i take it you see no issue why it doesnt want to start? Yes, the most obvious one is trigger offset as everyone keeps suggesting. Your intermittent spark is likely the low battery voltage coupled with the dwell table that has barely any dwell increase at low voltage. Something like below would be more realistic. Get the spark working continuously, then confirm the offset with a timing light. I would also suggest changing fuel equation to modelled mode for now since none of the multifuel stuff has been set up, and import the crank enrichment table out of one of our base maps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ls joker Posted January 22 Author Report Share Posted January 22 adamw, i will adjust the dwell table. then i will likely need help with the other steps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ls joker Posted January 22 Author Report Share Posted January 22 Guys, Today ive updated the firmware, increased the dwell time in the 0-500rpm column, changed the fuel table to modeled, crank enrichment table copied from 92-95 civic. Had the basemap lock screen open with timing at 16 degrees, offset 250, 80ms ignition delay. At 0ms it fired up on first crank, then died. Engine started then stopped abruptly, like after one second. Afterwards, i tried -250, and it wouldnt even start. Then offsets 248-262 with difference in results. It would still start, then same as before. Dying out one second after starting. So at this point the battery needs to charged again. But should i be looking at the post start table? Or has the engine and ecu even ran long enough for the adjustments to even make a difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted January 22 Report Share Posted January 22 Sounds like not enough fuel. Have you confirmed rail pressure? A quick way to add more fuel in modelled mode as a test is to increase the engine capacity setting. Will need a log to offer much more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ls joker Posted January 23 Author Report Share Posted January 23 1 hour ago, Adamw said: Sounds like not enough fuel. Have you confirmed rail pressure? A quick way to add more fuel in modelled mode as a test is to increase the engine capacity setting. Will need a log to offer much more. Adam, there is a guage mounted inline between the inline fuel filter and rail. Guage always shows pressure when the key is cycled. I moved it off the rail due to last one failing from engine vibration. The cranking enrichment tables were blank. And the post start, hold, delay, and warm up table were off. Or seemed pretty low. Compared to the 92-95 civic basemap. If i can get it running, im sure i can get the timing set and AFRs cleaned up on the fuel table. Just need to keep it running. I also will need help on how to calibrate the ECUs afr readings to my aem wideband. There was a linear calibration setup for it. Just not sure if im changing it in the linear calibration. Or the input a&b Batterys charging. Ill try to get a log tomorrow. Today i tried to record a datalog while also doing a triggerscope of it starting for the second. But that didnt work out for some reason. Only got the triggerscope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ls joker Posted January 23 Author Report Share Posted January 23 23 hours ago, Adamw said: Sounds like not enough fuel. Have you confirmed rail pressure? A quick way to add more fuel in modelled mode as a test is to increase the engine capacity setting. Will need a log to offer much more. adam, today loaded up the new map from last nite with the post start and warm up table tables changed. it ran for less than ten seconds, but was really lethargic. second time around of trying after that, i took a datalog and think i gave it some throttle, but it died. on the third time i added 20 percent to the entire fuel table. also increase the dwell time again in 11.6-8 volt cells. at that point it didnt even start or run. below is datalog of the current no start. no start 2.llgx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerace_fab Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 Charge that battery or replace it, it's steadily around 9-10v while cranking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted January 24 Report Share Posted January 24 According to the log the engine looks like it should have all the basics it needs to run. I notice your wideband turns off when cranking and turns back on when you stop cranking. Have you confirmed injectors and coils still have power when cranking? Going back to basics, if you have compression, fuel and spark at the right time then you should at least have some signs of life, so one of those is missing. Fuel you can confirm by adding a squirt of starter fluid, visual confirmation of spark is not always an accurate indication of what is happening inside the cylinder but is usually a good start. A "spark tester" that you connect between the coil and spark plug is good for confirming there is spark with the sparkplug under compression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ls joker Posted January 24 Author Report Share Posted January 24 8 hours ago, aerace_fab said: Charge that battery or replace it, it's steadily around 9-10v while cranking. Battery was new from honda like late summer or fall last year. Stays on trickle charger overnight. Will put the battery on different charger tomorrow. New batteries on this car has always dropped to like 10v when cranking. That was when i measuring at the starter signal in the past. Emailed the tuner about it running last night for a bit then stalling. Today i tried making adjustsment again, and it wont even run. At that point i was so frustrated with it. I emailed him sayin ill have it towed to his shop when it warms up and he has the time for that and a tune. 2 hours ago, Adamw said: According to the log the engine looks like it should have all the basics it needs to run. I notice your wideband turns off when cranking and turns back on when you stop cranking. Have you confirmed injectors and coils still have power when cranking? Going back to basics, if you have compression, fuel and spark at the right time then you should at least have some signs of life, so one of those is missing. Fuel you can confirm by adding a squirt of starter fluid, visual confirmation of spark is not always an accurate indication of what is happening inside the cylinder but is usually a good start. A "spark tester" that you connect between the coil and spark plug is good for confirming there is spark with the sparkplug under compression. Sorry i just assumed it had power, especially since ran for a bit a few times. Unless its intermittmently loosing power. Lately ive been datalogging each start. And typically look to see if the injector duty cycle goes up. Also verifying ignition from the logs. Ill backprobe everything over the weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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