Endurance_Racer Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 Hello, I am switching from our Life Racing unit to the Link G5. I have the calibration for the Life that we have all setup. But the setup in the Link is a bit different from what we have. I have everything setup except the DI pump control. Currently it looks like Link wants the start before lobe center. Where as on the Life racing we give it the start position for first lobe ATDC. Which is 70 degrees. I have all the values. If the Link software basis it off of different mathematical evaluation for control algorithm. I will in fact need to crack this thing open. Engine at hand is a 3.5L ecoboost. Looks like final duty linearization sdip duty and a few more we have. Trying to get a clear answer to switch over and give the G5 a shot at running our truck this year after dealing with major headaches from the Life stuff. Cheers, Endurance Racer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 Pump Cam Lobe centerline angle is in degrees after top dead center, this is the angle of the highest point on the cam lobe. Is the position you have in your software the angle immediately before it starts pumping i.e. at the low point on the cam before it starts rising? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted February 12 Author Report Share Posted February 12 I believe it starts ATDC like it shows. Here is a picture for reference. I just want to make sure the settings are correct. If I need to measure as the software wants us to measure. I can as I will have an engine back from machine work to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted February 18 Report Share Posted February 18 Because that says stroke start angles you will most likely need to add the total stroke length to the stroke start angle to get the peak of the lobe for entering into the Link's Lobe centerline setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted February 22 Author Report Share Posted February 22 So question..... How is the camshaft profile measured in relation to the Crankshaft profile? For the DI pump. As i assume you will need to have two different degree wheels and the Dial drop gauge to figure this out? Sorry for my ignorance. We have been trying to figure how you guys want this measured. Please let me know. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 You can measure the cam height entirely based on the crank angle, you would want to make sure you keep the tension in one direction. or measure the cam with a dial gauge on the cam and then just relate peak of cam to crank dial gauge. You can also play with settings while it is running to further confirm or adjust things like the lobe center angle and it should be reasonably easy to get it all working well with the PID Loop and feed forward table. The most important bit of data is the lobe center angle, the actual shape of the cam lobe while important doesn't need to be incredibly accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted February 23 Author Report Share Posted February 23 We see that the crank at TDC 1 the camshaft lobe is already past Lob center line. So do we measure the crankshaft in degrees until it gets to the next LOBE center line to start measuring and put that number into the Pump cam lobe center line degrees section? Both Ryan and RMB motorworks and I are trying to sort this out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted February 23 Report Share Posted February 23 if the lobe is at 1deg btdc and you have 3 lobes then you can use 239deg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted February 26 Author Report Share Posted February 26 Ok my second question is. In the literature it says that the Direct injection pump also needs it's own module? How can this be? I think that this needs a lot of looking over. I am going to run the pump off Inj9 output. With constant 12 supply to the pump via the PDM. This should work just fine. I am not sure 239 will work. I will find exactly where it is. I figured Link would want to work with performance based shops to start developing actual data base for the G5 hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted February 26 Report Share Posted February 26 32 minutes ago, Endurance_Racer said: In the literature it says that the Direct injection pump also needs it's own module? How can this be? Vast majority of pump solenoids require peak and hold drivers. I assume you are currently using an external driver box for the injectors as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted February 27 Author Report Share Posted February 27 Yes using Life box for the injectors. But the way we have it on the GDI pump is from a H-bridge on the PDM unit and Injector 9 gnd on the Voodoo pro. I assume this should be just fine? I have used GDI pumps like this when the pump is normally open. I do not see why it would not work. Just wanted some clarification. Because the literature as stated above has been a little lacking for the GDI stuff atm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 Do you know the resistance of your DI Pump Solenoid? Is it an NO or an NC pump? It should work fine as long as the resistance is high enough that you aren't putting too much current through the injector drive, not using peak and hold will just mean you are putting a little more heat into the solenoid. There should be more documentation coming, is there any specific documentation that you would particularly like to see or any particular locations in the help manual or website that you think documentation is lacking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted February 27 Author Report Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, Vaughan said: Do you know the resistance of your DI Pump Solenoid? Is it an NO or an NC pump? It should work fine as long as the resistance is high enough that you aren't putting too much current through the injector drive, not using peak and hold will just mean you are putting a little more heat into the solenoid. There should be more documentation coming, is there any specific documentation that you would particularly like to see or any particular locations in the help manual or website that you think documentation is lacking? The resistance of the factory pump is .7 ohms and is normally open. So it will energized closed. I talked to Simon today and we will run this off a 20amp PDM output and use ignition 9 to control the pump. I am assuming it should be just fine. This should allow the solenoid to operate just fine. Once I have the truck powered. I will send some files for you to view. This is going to be a great project and look forward to getting the G5 to run this thing flawlessly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 52 minutes ago, Endurance_Racer said: The resistance of the factory pump is .7 ohms and is normally open. So it will energized closed. I talked to Simon today and we will run this off a 20amp PDM output and use ignition 9 to control the pump. I am assuming it should be just fine. This should allow the solenoid to operate just fine. 0.7ohm at 14V is 20A, this will blow an ignition drive immediately if you are not using peak and hold hardware in between the ECU output and the solenoid. You will also kill your fuel pump solenoid if you run 20A through it. Do you have any of the data for the pump peak and hold currents? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted February 27 Author Report Share Posted February 27 I am not. I am using the PDM output for the solenoid control and using injector/ign. 9 to control the negative side of the DI fuel pump. Does this make more sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 Is the PDM Output on the high side constantly on or is it doing some current control where it will limit the current to a sensible number like less than 5A? (without just turning the output off) If you just have the PDM output on the whole time with it only limited to 20A and you have the ECU output connected to the lowside then you will kill the ECU output and possibly your solenoid too. Wired like the below diagram will kill the ECU drive If you have the ECU output going into the PDM and then the PDM output and good solid ground connected to the solenoid you will not kill the ECU drive and you could PWM the Solenoid at a high frequency to reduce the power it is sinking. You would want to make sure that you turn off the output when ECU wasn't powered on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted February 28 Author Report Share Posted February 28 This is very interesting as this is not how it was wired on the Life racing unit. It was Hbridge to the positive side of the pump and the Negative side of the pump to the Inj.11 output from the Life. It would be so nice if this was internal to the ECU itself. So How do you recommend it to be wired. I am not sure I have enough outputs for the Solenoid for the PDM. I will not have to wire something off to the side for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 I suspect the Life Racing ECU had a peak and hold driver on that injector output, a look at your settings should confirm this and show what Peak and Hold Current values it was using. The proper solution is to have a configurable peak and hold driver between the ECU output and the fuel pump and this hardware is often included in the injector drive box (or at least it is for things like the GT86, IS350 etc and is how the Link DI Driver has been designed). I am unsure on where to acquire a single peak and hold driver. One possible solution would be to add a ballast resistor to reduce the current draw but I am unsure what this would do to the solenoid opening time. About 2.8ohm of ballast would bring the current down to a more appropriate 4A and it would need to be rated for at least 12W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted February 28 Author Report Share Posted February 28 Here take a look at some information I found. This should get us started pretty quickly. I will send some more screenshots. Pull in current is 6.25 AMPS max for this pump I believe. It really is not a lot at all. I am thinking I should be able to put a resistor in line and PWM from the Inj.9 output from the ECU? Let me know your thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 Holding current of 2.68A and a Pull-in current with no value is the smoking gun there that it uses a peak and hold drive. To get 2.68A at 14V you would want a ballast resistor of 4.5ohm, not using a ballast resistor over using a peak and hold driver will slow the response of the solenoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted February 28 Author Report Share Posted February 28 I agree with you there. Here is the pull in current. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 Ah, didn't realise that pull in thing was a table, maybe just try for 4A worth of ballast if you can't find suitable peak and hold hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted February 28 Author Report Share Posted February 28 Yes this is what I am thinking for the time being so I can run the ignition 9 output from the ECU. I can plug in the values for the pump and get as close to the 6amps as possible. I also found a lot of the factory calculations. This looks like I can plug this right into the Link software and it should work really well. Vaughan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 Note injector pins on the Voodoo can only support 5A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted February 28 Author Report Share Posted February 28 Ok I will get this somewhere around the 4.6amps as recommended. I am sure that this will need some tuning on the feedforward and some of the delay table data. We can sort this out. The truck will be running PI as well. I will get it all setup and should be ready to test Thursday. Grateful for the feedback and info on this. Let me know if you have an email Would love to send you the file and logs once we get going. Vaughan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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