Endurance_Racer Posted March 6 Author Report Share Posted March 6 Crank trigger looking a bit iffy..... 12v source power for all hall effect sensor. Trigger Scope 3.5LECOBOOST- 2024-03-6 8;29;50 am.llg5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 That trigger scope doesn't show any data, did you click capture while it was cranking and then kept cranking it until it showed up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted March 6 Author Report Share Posted March 6 Yes I did... That is very interesting. I will do another one here shortly. Here is the tune file so far. I need Adam to chime in and help with the Key pad buttons. I need to be able to see them for certain things like MPH Limiter through certain sections of the track. Anyhow so glad you guys can help. Brady_7100TT-3.5L_V1.0.pcl5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 Looking in your basemap you will need to turn off the CAN keypad channel in CAN 2 and set the keypad up in one PDM only if the PDMs are switching the ECU on and off. Do you have any pictures of what your cam and crank sensors look like? If you pull one out (leaving the loom plugged in) and move a bit of ferrous metal past it do you see the Trigger signal runtime change? Can you take a PCLog of your next attempted start when you are also getting a trigger scope please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted March 6 Author Report Share Posted March 6 Here is the data. Let me know if you can see this. Trigger Scope - 2024-03-6 1;17;44 pm.llg5 PC Datalog7100TT - 2024-03-6 1;17;25 pm.llg5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 So in the PCLog I can see the battery voltage dip when you crank and I can see a small dip of about 1kPa in your MAP value at the same time but no hint of any triggers at all. Same with the trigger scope, it just shows them both sitting up around 10V with some slight noise on them but no teeth visible. 1 hour ago, Vaughan said: Do you have any pictures of what your cam and crank sensors look like? If you pull one out (leaving the loom plugged in) and move a bit of ferrous metal past it do you see the Trigger signal runtime change? Can you take a PCLog of your next attempted start when you are also getting a trigger scope please. Can you get some pictures of the sensors and how they are wired please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted March 6 Author Report Share Posted March 6 Yes I will do that. They are three wire sensors. I have them 12v sharing power and run through a AST QD connector. They are all sharing the same trigger ground as well in the ECU. I am not sure why they are stuck. It is very odd. I went off the factory wiring schematic for these sensors. Here is a pic of the Bank 1 EXH trigger sensor and the shielded wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 Are you using the same engine loom as you did for the life racing ECU but with different plugs on it? are there any trigger pullups in it external to the ECU? can you pull one of the sensors out and bench test with a power supply, piece of metal and a multimeter to see what voltages it switches between without a pullup? No crank or cam reading teeth but both sitting at ~10V despite one having the pullup on and the other having it off suggests a wiring issue or a sensor issue to me so confirming how the sensors work on the bench will be a good starting point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted March 7 Author Report Share Posted March 7 Ok so after checking them... It seems that the sensors are not really doing anything. I need to check a few more sensors. I am not sure that the factory wiring diagram is even correct. CORRECTION.... The sensors are staying at about 3.5 volts and when putting metal to them they drop to zero with pullup resistor off. So seems the sensors are wired incorrectly and I will get this resolved. On another note. Here is the fuel pump table we came up with. Vaughan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted March 7 Author Report Share Posted March 7 Ok so we got the cam sensor online and the Crank trigger is still being fussy. I will upload the trigger scope here so you can take a look at it. Trigger Scope2 ECOBOOST - 2024-03-6 6;33;26 pm.llg5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 Have you tried turning off the trigger 1 pullup? Is trigger 1 a hall effect sensor like the cam sensors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted March 7 Author Report Share Posted March 7 Yes it is just like the cam sensor. When I turn it off it gets nothing... I just swapped the sensor and they are both bad.... Voltage not showing zero when it passes over the sensor. So we are sourcing a new sensor. Good news is the cam looks great. Did you get a chance to look at the Fuel pump calibration? Here is the new file. Take a look and ask Adam if he can help with setting up outputs for CAN to the AIM units so we can get fans and fuel pumps working via control of the ECU please? Brady_7100TT-3.5L_V1.0.pcl5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 19 minutes ago, Endurance_Racer said: Did you get a chance to look at the Fuel pump calibration? I did have a look at it but found it a bit confusing to read, can you put the info into an excel table or something? Are the angles in degrees before top dead or in degrees after top dead, are the lift measurements the drop from the highest point? is it measured on the rising edge of the lobe or the falling edge? Also it looks like you didn't get to 100% is the % the percentage of height from bottom or percentage of height from top? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted March 7 Author Report Share Posted March 7 The information is in the table. Sorry for the handwriting. So I found in the Ford factory HP tuners information that the lobe center after TDC starts at 180 degrees. We went forward from there every 11 degrees measuring from full lift to bottom of downslope. So yes drop from the highest point. Falling edge of the lobe. It did not get to 100%. Which I found odd. I think i could have taken one more measurement and it would have. But did not want to skew how many rows we had to work with the G5 software. Let me know and open the file I just sent as the measurements are in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 Falling edge of the lobe is the wrong edge to measure, you need to measure the rising edge of the lobe. If you measured the falling slope wouldn't the ATDC angles increase as the height from the top of the lobe increased? Might be easiest just to start measuring with it zeroed a wee way before the lobe, measure every 10deg of rotation as you go, list all the heights from that initial zero point and then find the start of the curve from there and then convert to 100% once you had the known full range of heights. The pump cal table can have up to 16 values on the axis but you can decide on which values to use based on the data you have recorded as more data points at the less linear sections is more important than data points at the more linear sections. Your graph also comes out as a straight line which won't match the actual curve of the lobe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted March 7 Author Report Share Posted March 7 Ok so we started at the top of the Lobe which would be considered lobe center yes? If i measure the rising edge it starts at around 60 degrees after TDC. I can do every 10 degrees and get the measurements. Then get them to you. Is this what you will want? This will be simple. Let me know and I will do that to get the data for this engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 15 hours ago, Endurance_Racer said: Ok so we started at the top of the Lobe which would be considered lobe center yes? yes the top of the lobe is considered the lobe center in the Link software. 15 hours ago, Endurance_Racer said: If i measure the rising edge it starts at around 60 degrees after TDC. I can do every 10 degrees and get the measurements. Then get them to you. Is this what you will want? This will be simple. Let me know and I will do that to get the data for this engine. yes please, exactly that, feel free to start before the 60deg mark and finish after the tdc as I can just trim the data, and maybe zero the dial gauge at the bottom of the lobe so it is increasing values as you go up the lobe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted March 7 Author Report Share Posted March 7 Ok so very interesting find.... The crank sensor seems to be different in some way. All of the other trigger sensors working. Have checked continuity from all the Crank pins back to the ecu. They are great. with less then 0.3 back to the ecu. The crank position sensor is the only one not getting signal. We have tried to bench test it and it does not change at all. Even with a new sensor. Something is different about the factory crank sensor then the other sensors. Let me know your thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 could it be that the crank sensor is a reluctor sensor with the 3rd pin being the shield? or is the crank sensor a different pinout to the cam sensors? Do you have a wiring diagram for the factory engine setup or a pinout diagram for that specific sensor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted March 7 Author Report Share Posted March 7 Yeah it is super strange. In the Life racing software. They have it as a thermistor and have a voltage threshold of 2.5 high to 2v low. Strange. Here is the wiring diagram from Factory. It has it as Pin 1 to CKP+, Pin 2 to signal return, and Pin 3 is VReff. Let me know your thoughts. Currently the only thing holding us up along with the pump data which I will do right Now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 9 minutes ago, Endurance_Racer said: It has it as Pin 1 to CKP+, Pin 2 to signal return, and Pin 3 is VReff. does the cam have the same pin naming or different? Maybe change trigger 1 mode to reluctor and take a trigger scope? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted March 7 Author Report Share Posted March 7 Nothing at all..... Also since there is only 57 crank degrees to around 180 I should really take measurements every 5 degrees off the crank for the HPFP. I do not have a degree wheel on the Camshaft only on the crankshaft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted March 7 Author Report Share Posted March 7 Ok here is the HPFP information. We have a race in one week and need to try and get this thing to the dyno. Any help to finish this would be great. Here is also the wiring pinout for the factory CKP sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 48 minutes ago, Endurance_Racer said: It has it as Pin 1 to CKP+, Pin 2 to signal return, and Pin 3 is VReff. 10 minutes ago, Endurance_Racer said: So Pin1 (CKP) to Link Trigger 1 (A8), Pin 3 to 5V and Pin 2 I believe to signal ground. That icon says it is a hall effect sensor. 1 hour ago, Endurance_Racer said: We have tried to bench test it and it does not change at all. Was this done with the wiring as specified above? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted March 7 Author Report Share Posted March 7 Yes it was.... we still do not even get the sensor to do anything on the bench. It is absolutely mind boggling that it will not do anything. Let me know about the fuel pump information I sent. I just want to get this thing to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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