Adamw Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 To explain spill valve On duration a bit more; with a normally open type pump, when you energise the solenoid this pulls the valve closed, this allows pressure to increase inside the pump cylinder, once that pressure is above rail pressure then the valve is held closed just by the pressure pushing against it, the solenoid no longer needs to hold it closed. The On duration only needs to be long enough to allow that initial pressure to increase enough to hold it closed, once it is held closed you turn off the solenoid to prevent it and the driver/wiring etc from overheating. BTW, once that valve is closed it cant be opened again until the pump goes past TDC which is why HPFP control is so tricky. I think this engine should have a HDP5 based pump so about 40Deg will likely work for initial start up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted March 11 Author Report Share Posted March 11 1 minute ago, Adamw said: To explain spill valve On duration a bit more; with a normally open type pump, when you energise the solenoid this pulls the valve closed, this allows pressure to increase inside the pump cylinder, once that pressure is above rail pressure then the valve is held closed just by the pressure pushing against it, the solenoid no longer needs to hold it closed. The On duration only needs to be long enough to allow that initial pressure to increase enough to hold it closed, once it is held closed you turn off the solenoid to prevent it and the driver/wiring etc from overheating. BTW, once that valve is closed it cant be opened again until the pump goes past TDC which is why HPFP control is so tricky. I think this engine should have a HDP5 based pump so about 40Deg will likely work for initial start up. This is amazing.... Appreciate that clarification. Makes sense. Factory says 45degress. But I will move it to 40 and take some logs. We have 3 more of these trucks to do. So this will be a great start. Let me know if you ended up getting the second PDM file. It was too large to transfer here in the chat. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laminar Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 The values in the HPTuners tune for cam angle reference angle from resting position, not absolute cam position based on crank degrees. For some reason HPT uses negative numbers for intake advance and positive for exhaust retard but Link is the opposite. Make your intake max retard 0 and advance 100, exhaust max retard -60 and advance 0 and see if the system likes it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted March 11 Author Report Share Posted March 11 Ok now I have a strange problem. Once I changed my setting from what they were in the advanced and retarded tooth tolerance. I can no longer get to my desired angle in the software. I am assuming this is because of the window I have and the parameters in this section not being correct? Once I made those changes you suggested. These numbers went positive on the exhaust side and will not go to the commanded settings I had. The fully retard and advanced settings are from my measurement off the camshaft at Lobe center line. I was going off the factory settings here. When i entered those. It seemed to work correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 Updated PDM and ecu file attached. I also added CAN aux 2 in case you want to use that so the ecu can control the fan. In the PDM config I changed the fuel pump output to use the ECU fuel pump request but I didn't change the fans. Sorry I missed the PDM08 config, can you share that with onedrive/google drive/drop box etc. The attached .xc1 is the custom CAN builder file for RS3, you can import this into the CAN builder in RS3 if you want to see how it is done. For the VVT, it is more common to leave the fully advanced/fully retarded positions set to zero, then your target tables are just "degrees from home position" (and yes Ford uses negative for advance, Link uses positive). If you set the fully advanced/fully retarded positions to the real measured lobe centrelines then your target tables use lobe centre. Unless you're an engine dev that works in lobe centres every day you may find it less intuitive doing it that way. I would suggest leaving the cam actuators unplugged until you get it running and the basics ironed out. I suspect this engine will have "mid lock" phasers on the intake like the coyote and bara that use an active high signal and can move both retard and advance from "home" position. Brady_7100TT-3.5L_V1.1.pcl5 LINK_Brady Custom_@20240311_005747_001265.xc1 Doteki 32 703 Brady V1.1.zconfig Edit - Added later: PDM08 config attached. I have added DI rail pressure to the ECU CAN stream since you had an alarm set up for that. Doteki 703 Brady V1.1.zconfig Brady_7100TT-3.5L_V1.2.pcl5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted March 11 Author Report Share Posted March 11 1 hour ago, Adamw said: Updated PDM and ecu file attached. I also added CAN aux 2 in case you want to use that so the ecu can control the fan. In the PDM config I changed the fuel pump output to use the ECU fuel pump request but I didn't change the fans. Sorry I missed the PDM08 config, can you share that with onedrive/google drive/drop box etc. The attached .xc1 is the custom CAN builder file for RS3, you can import this into the CAN builder in RS3 if you want to see how it is done. For the VVT, it is more common to leave the fully advanced/fully retarded positions set to zero, then your target tables are just "degrees from home position" (and yes Ford uses negative for advance, Link uses positive). If you set the fully advanced/fully retarded positions to the real measured lobe centrelines then your target tables use lobe centre. Unless you're an engine dev that works in lobe centres every day you may find it less intuitive doing it that way. I would suggest leaving the cam actuators unplugged until you get it running and the basics ironed out. I suspect this engine will have "mid lock" phasers on the intake like the coyote and bara that use an active high signal and can move both retard and advance from "home" position. Brady_7100TT-3.5L_V1.1.pcl5 530.51 kB · 0 downloads LINK_Brady Custom_@20240311_005747_001265.xc1 277.85 kB · 0 downloads Doteki 32 703 Brady V1.1.zconfig 666.82 kB · 0 downloads Edit - Added later: PDM08 config attached. I have added DI rail pressure to the ECU CAN stream since you had an alarm set up for that. Doteki 703 Brady V1.1.zconfig 1.21 MB · 0 downloads Brady_7100TT-3.5L_V1.2.pcl5 530.51 kB · 0 downloads Can I setup a request from the PDM when buttons are pressed on the KEY Pad controlled by the PDM? have two buttons. One for boost setting and one for a MPH latch for when we have to go through certain sections of the track that only allow us a 25mph limit. Thank you for clarifying the cam phasers. They are two wire actuators. I am not sure they have a mid phaser lockout. I can ask tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted March 11 Author Report Share Posted March 11 Ok.... So interesting.... Now I have no fuel. Still getting a few trigger errors. But I have no fuel at all. Here is a log. I will send the current tune file as well. Not sure. It is almost 9pm here and still no bang bang. Let me know your thoughts. lol I can not share the files because it says they are too big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 You've run out of forum storage, upload your log to one drive or google drive and share a link to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted March 11 Author Report Share Posted March 11 Added you to the drop box. Yeah for some reason it will not fuel itself. Not sure why that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 It's putting fuel in on the secondaries as it should be, how have you wired the injectors? Do the injectors tick on cranking? Do you have fuel pressure? What indicates to you that it isn't putting fuel in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted March 11 Author Report Share Posted March 11 For the port injection it just does nothing. When I add the direct injection. It pops after a couple cranks through the intake. I am sure you will see this on the Log. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 1 minute ago, Endurance_Racer said: For the port injection it just does nothing. When I add the direct injection. It pops after a couple cranks through the intake. I am sure you will see this on the Log. The screenshot above is from your log, the PW value on the secondary's says it is triggering the secondary injector outputs. I have just noticed you have Injector drive reallocation turned on now with injector drives 7-12 ordered differently, why have you done this? For reference injectors should be wired Inj 1-6 to DI Inj on cylinders 1-6 and inj7-12 to port injectors on cylinders 1-6 respectively. have you done an injector test on injector 7-12 to make sure the injectors are operating correctly and are wired to the correct cylinders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted March 11 Author Report Share Posted March 11 I will change the wiring then. As I believe the wires were mixed up on injector 1 and 3 for port injection. We verified and I switched them up. This should not affect anyting no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 5 minutes ago, Endurance_Racer said: I will change the wiring then. As I believe the wires were mixed up on injector 1 and 3 for port injection. We verified and I switched them up. This should not affect anyting no? Best to wire it as above, turn off injector drive reallocation and then test each injector using the injector test function to confirm injectors are wired correctly and then also check that ignition1-6 are wired to cylinder 1-6 respectively using the ignition test functionality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted March 11 Author Report Share Posted March 11 Im wondering if the Injection angle is the problem. I really am not sure at this point in time. Seems like it wants to run but just having this timing issues or injection issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 injection angle shouldn't be a big issue for starting but ignition angle would be, definitely check to make sure everything is wired correctly. Also please upload a tune as well whenever you upload a log so that I know exactly what the settings were for that log. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted March 11 Author Report Share Posted March 11 Just uploaded last tune.... Everything checks out just fine. All injection and ignition now. Moved the 1 and 3 injector for Port back. So we are good. If Injection angle could be far out.... This would cause it to do what it is doing correct? I feel that is what is happening. The reason I say this is because we use ATDC in the Life racing software. I just noticed that this is BTDC. That would mean that my values are not correct for this setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted March 11 Author Report Share Posted March 11 Just uploaded a brand new trigger scope!! Really not sure what is going on.... Have fuel, have spark, and it will spit and do some weird stuff. The wiring is all great. Trigger looks to be doing what it needs to do. Just very awkward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 Looking at your latest V1.2 basemap: turn off the injector drive reallocation, you've changed the ordering back to normal but best to turn off the setting in the Fuel main window too. You are still using the IAT Fuel trim and warm up enrichment table which both of which are accounted for in the charge temp table and so should be off. Out of curiosity are your port injectors high impedance or low impedance injectors? do you have a part number or brand/model name for them? Your Trigger 1 Sync Tooth is wrong, it should be set to 7 Your trigger offset is still set to 37, change your trigger 1 sync tooth first and redo your timing first though. The big take away from that though is that Triggers -> Trigger 1 -> Sync Tooth is still set to 1 instead of to 7 like I specified yesterday so fix that and then redo your timing with a timing light and if it pops out the intake still after that then change your trigger offset by 360deg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted March 11 Author Report Share Posted March 11 Ok very odd. Seemed like it wanted to start then popped out the intake again causing the fans to come on as it was getting hot in the intake from the gasses. Here is a log. 35 to 37 is our trigger offset even with 7 as the sync tooth. It was the same. I am not sure what is going on here as this has me a bit confused. Could it actually be the Injection timing? Take a look at the log and tune file I just uploaded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laminar Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 Your cooling fans are based on intake air temperature? Did you do a trigger calibration with a timing light on the crank pulley? Did you increase your offset by 360 degrees as recommended? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 5 minutes ago, Endurance_Racer said: Ok very odd. Seemed like it wanted to start then popped out the intake again causing the fans to come on as it was getting hot in the intake from the gasses. Here is a log. 35 to 37 is our trigger offset even with 7 as the sync tooth. It was the same. with sync tooth set to 1 it would have been syncing in the wrong half of the cycle half the time which would explain popping out the intake. That means that now it should be syncing in the same half always so if it is still popping out the intake then use try the trigger offset that is 360 from your current one (-325 to -323 based on your above numbers). Injection timing won't be causing a pop out the intake, the pop has to be caused by the intake valve being open when the spark ignites which means that it is sparking near the top of the exhaust stroke not the compression stroke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted March 11 Author Report Share Posted March 11 I feel like it is worse.... For some reason it is doing the same thing. It is very odd. I also notice a lot of ROC when this is happening. I wonder what the deal is with that? I am uploading another log. Please look at it. Changed over to -325 and same thing. This is so odd.... I feel like this thing should fire now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 Have you wired ignition drive 1 to cylinder 1, ignition drive 2 to cyl2 and so on? When calibrating the ignition timing with a timing light have you made a pair of tdc marks on the crank pulley by measuring near tdc for cyl 1with a dial gauge on both sides of tdc and then splitting the difference. Once you have that tdc mark for cyl 1 did you connect a timing light between the ignition 1/cyl 1 coil and the spark plug and then connect PCLink to the ECU, open the "set base timing" window, set the first box to 0deg, pressed enter and then cranked it over while the "set base timing" window is open to confirm that the spark happens right on that cyl 1 tdc mark? This is best done with fuel off and needs to be done with a timing light with no offset configured within it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endurance_Racer Posted March 11 Author Report Share Posted March 11 You think it could be around the 323 range? It is trying but on both triggers just keeps pushing air out the intake port. Yes I have done this. Clamped the power signal wire and checked it. Something is just off and it is going to be very silly I will check again. But I marked the crankshaft position. I will check it again right now. 6 minutes ago, Vaughan said: Have you wired ignition drive 1 to cylinder 1, ignition drive 2 to cyl2 and so on? When calibrating the ignition timing with a timing light have you made a pair of tdc marks on the crank pulley by measuring near tdc for cyl 1with a dial gauge on both sides of tdc and then splitting the difference. Once you have that tdc mark for cyl 1 did you connect a timing light between the ignition 1/cyl 1 coil and the spark plug and then connect PCLink to the ECU, open the "set base timing" window, set the first box to 0deg, pressed enter and then cranked it over while the "set base timing" window is open to confirm that the spark happens right on that cyl 1 tdc mark? This is best done with fuel off and needs to be done with a timing light with no offset configured within it. I have done all of this. I am doing it again to double check if these values are correct! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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