Electronic Boost Control Routing

[2.0L_turbo]

Hey everyone, I am having an issue with my turbo coming on super lazy and I am trying to figure out what I need to do to get it to come on earlier. The turbo in question is a billet Holset HX40/35 6060 hybrid with a divided 12cm2 exhaust housing on a 2.0L 4G63 built bottom end and a set of comp cams with all supporting mods. I am beginning to think maybe the way I have routed my EBCS may be part of the cause. My tuner asked me to route it a different way then how the help file suggests with the left port of the solenoid going to the bottom port, The center port going to the turbo compressor cover, and the right port being vented through the brass filter. 

 

Are there advantages to doing it the way he is asking, or should it be set up like the help file. I have boost leak tested and not found anything, the compression on the motor is 175 across the board +- 2 psi, and I'm only building 17 psi by 5600 rpm when lots of guys are saying that with extremely similar set ups they make 25+psi at 4500rpm so I am at a loss as to why mine is so lazy. 

[Vaughan]

Are you using a solenoid from Link or generic solenoid from elsewhere? You'll want your solenoid to have the runner from the turbo feed connected to the gate when un powered and blocked off when powered and you want the gate to be connected to the housing reference when unpowered and connected to atmosphere when powered.

Are you 100% duty (gate connected to atmospheric pressure) when spooling?

Do you know if the gate is opening at all while spooling (can usually be viewed while car is on dyno)?

You could also play antilag, launch control or ignition timing games to try and get it spooled earlier. If the gate is opening when it is connected to atmospheric pressure then you will need heavier springs or a 4 port setup to feed pressure into the other side of the gate to hold it shut.

[2.0L_turbo]

I am using a real mac valve, same as the link one just not branded as link. And I can hear my wastegate open when it hits spring pressure so I know the gate is operating normally just super lazy response. 

[K4Tuning]

What wastegate are you using? If it is a Tial type or a type that can have boost pressure supplied to both top and bottom of the gate,, make sure all unused ports are blocked or plugged. If its a MAC style solenoid it should b numbered 1, 2, 3, and usual simplistic setup is 3 to compressor, 2 to wastegate, and 1 is vented or recirculated. Also standard setup on the gate would be to use single port on the bottom and vent the cap. Never had an issue with this set upon evos or 4g63 engines at power levels stock to 700+. Hope that helps.

[2.0L_turbo]

9 hours ago, k4nnon said:

What wastegate are you using? If it is a Tial type or a type that can have boost pressure supplied to both top and bottom of the gate,, make sure all unused ports are blocked or plugged. If its a MAC style solenoid it should b numbered 1, 2, 3, and usual simplistic setup is 3 to compressor, 2 to wastegate, and 1 is vented or recirculated. Also standard setup on the gate would be to use single port on the bottom and vent the cap. Never had an issue with this set upon evos or 4g63 engines at power levels stock to 700+. Hope that helps.

The gate im using is a real Tial v44, the way its hooked up is left port of the solenoid going to the bottom port of the gate, The center port going to the turbo compressor cover, and the right port of the solenoid being vented through the brass filter, and the top port of the gate is vented. So by reading what your saying mine is set up the same. 

[K4Tuning]

13 hours ago, 2.0L_turbo said:

The gate im using is a real Tial v44, the way its hooked up is left port of the solenoid going to the bottom port of the gate, The center port going to the turbo compressor cover, and the right port of the solenoid being vented through the brass filter, and the top port of the gate is vented. So by reading what your saying mine is set up the same. 

Sounds like it’s set up properly, have you ever had the wastegate off? Is there any chance the fire ring is missing? Iv seen that happen quite often either by people having the gate off and losing or forgetting to put it back in, or if someone puts the car together poorly to sell and then the next owner just has no idea. Maybe just verify that the fire ring is there also. 

[2.0L_turbo]

7 hours ago, k4nnon said:

Sounds like it’s set up properly, have you ever had the wastegate off? Is there any chance the fire ring is missing? Iv seen that happen quite often either by people having the gate off and losing or forgetting to put it back in, or if someone puts the car together poorly to sell and then the next owner just has no idea. Maybe just verify that the fire ring is there also. 

I was the one to put it on the car the fire ring is definitely there, I just had it off the other day when changing my alternator belt. I had the same thought that I forgot to put it on too. 

[Vaughan]

If the gate isn't physically opening and you aren't leaking exhaust gases past the gate then the only way to improve spool (without adding something like fresh air antilag) will be to play with ignition timing.

[jdniss]

Does it spool any faster if you disconnect the electronic boost solenoid from the system entirely..?
ie: Run solely off wastegate spring pressure - assuming the boost solenoid is configured/plumbed incorrectly and exacerbating the lazy boost curve.

Can you post the map and a log file?

 

There's no exhaust restriction? Cat converter blown out? Cam timing off? MAC valve faulty? Accidentally left a rag in the intake piping..?

[2.0L_turbo]

Decided to build a smoke tester and see if theres leaks I just cant see or hear. Should have everything by tomorrow.

 

On 4/9/2024 at 8:22 PM, jdniss said:

Does it spool any faster if you disconnect the electronic boost solenoid from the system entirely..?
ie: Run solely off wastegate spring pressure - assuming the boost solenoid is configured/plumbed incorrectly and exacerbating the lazy boost curve.

Can you post the map and a log file?

 

There's no exhaust restriction? Cat converter blown out? Cam timing off? MAC valve faulty? Accidentally left a rag in the intake piping..?

Definitely no restrictions in the exhaust we dont require cats where I am from and that was removed a long long time ago, mechanical timing is dead on I just added cams a 2 weeks ago and re did timing. Mac valve tests out fine, and all pipes are clear . 

[2.0L_turbo]

ok so did a smoke test, only place it leaked was out of the dipstick. 

 

here are the map and log

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1A49E_eHuK_I1U4oVQY9NxRqRjZI8Q2S_/view?usp=drive_link

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1U34Yz4BiSQHqshrE0uR9CbcIYG6DR5FA/view?usp=drive_link

[jdniss]

2 hours ago, 2.0L_turbo said:

ok so did a smoke test, only place it leaked was out of the dipstick. 

 

here are the map and log

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1A49E_eHuK_I1U4oVQY9NxRqRjZI8Q2S_/view?usp=drive_link

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1U34Yz4BiSQHqshrE0uR9CbcIYG6DR5FA/view?usp=drive_link

those two google drive files are restricted

[2.0L_turbo]

2 hours ago, jdniss said:

those two google drive files are restricted

my bad forgot to make them non restricted, here are the new links.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kl8kD6ZtBA7KIsU-hdugPkKVhQTzo9aj/view?usp=sharing

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1A49E_eHuK_I1U4oVQY9NxRqRjZI8Q2S_/view?usp=sharing

[jdniss]

You've got a Gear based Wastegate trim basically activated permanently because either Gear detection isn't setup correctly or isn't working.

Fairly certain as soon as the Boost Control activates it has 50% WG duty ripped out of it due to the Gear Trim
 

[2.0L_turbo]

5 minutes ago, jdniss said:

You've got a Gear based Wastegate trim basically activated permanently because either Gear detection isn't setup correctly or isn't working.

Fairly certain as soon as the Boost Control activates it has 50% WG duty ripped out of it due to the Gear Trim

interesting I will have to look into this I never set up the boost control my tuner did. The car is Auto if that makes a difference and I do not have a way to tell the ecu what gear its in. 

[jdniss]

hmmm.. wouldn't have thought you'd bother configuring Gear Detection at all if it was an auto.. unless the basemap comes pre-configured like that..? including the gear wastegate trim? - and the tuner never bothered to change it..?

there's also a small amount of trim being pulled out by the IAT Trim - apparently the car was seeing 8° intake air temps..?

the software must report the WG Duty value prior to any trims.. would've thought the reported 90% WG Duty value would be lower if a -50% gear trim was being applied

[2.0L_turbo]

5 minutes ago, jdniss said:

hmmm.. wouldn't have thought you'd bother configuring Gear Detection at all if it was an auto.. unless the basemap comes pre-configured like that..? including the gear wastegate trim? - and the tuner never bothered to change it..?

there's also a small amount of trim being pulled out by the IAT Trim - apparently the car was seeing 8° intake air temps..?

the software must report the WG Duty value prior to any trims.. would've thought the reported 90% WG Duty value would be lower if a -50% gear trim was being applied

 

The IAT is likely correct I live in Canada and at the time of taking this log it was about -15 deg C outside and the car has a rather large FMIC. 

I will deffinitely be asking my tuner about the Boost by gear map, there is a controller I can get that could tell the ECU what gear I am in, but I have yet to get it. currently the auto trans is controlled by a separate aftermarket TCU called a Forcedfour Smart 100.1, it can do a ton of really cool features but natively wont tell the ecu what gear I am in. 

[koracing]

Gear is usually calculated based on a speed signal and rpm set up in a table. That may not work as well on an automatic, but if you have a speed signal there should be some type of setup that could be done.