ECU for V12

[aconis]

Hello everyone.

I need a help to chose proper ECU to run my NA V12 engine swap.

It is 12 injectors, 6 wasted spark, 4 KNOCK SENSORS, 2 DBW throttle and 2 MAF sensors (considering switching to a new intake plenum and using 1 DBW throttle and MAP sensor).

 The car I’m swapping engine to is BRZ 2012.

Thanks to everyone who can give me an idea of what ECU will work for me.

[Adamw]

We dont currently have any ecu's with 12 injector drives, so anything we can offer can only do grouped injection.  2 x DBW is possible with a G4+ Thunder and some of the smaller G4X ecu's (Xtreme etc) will soon be capable of 2 x E-throttle (using an external H-bridge).  

We dont have good MAF support and dont have support for 4 knock sensors.  

[Electredge]

You could run 2 - Extreme's one per bank  this was done about 15yrs ago with HKS F-Con V-Pro used on Twin Turbo Lambo's 

[aconis]

6 hours ago, Adamw said:

We dont currently have any ecu's with 12 injector drives, so anything we can offer can only do grouped injection.  2 x DBW is possible with a G4+ Thunder and some of the smaller G4X ecu's (Xtreme etc) will soon be capable of 2 x E-throttle (using an external H-bridge).  

We dont have good MAF support and dont have support for 4 knock sensors.  

So if I run grouped injectors (6 groups) and if I switch to single DBW throttle will I still be limited by ECU supporting 12 cylinders, such as G4+ Thunder or in such setup I have more choice? 
 

In regards to knock sensors I think I can use one from each bank and the rest connect to independent knock detecting device.

[Adamw]

All of our ECU's support 12cyl, even the baby Atom. 

The Thunder can do 2 DBW and has 2 internal lambda controllers - but be aware it is our older G4+ generation so doesnt have some of the newer features that the G4X ecu's have.   We dont have a Thunder in the G4X platform.

The other option would be something like our G4X Fury or Xtreme, these both have 1 x DBW controller onboard and will soon be able to do 2 x DBW with the addition of our external module.  I believe we have the 2 x DBW firmware working on the bench but it hasnt been widely tested on real engines yet so that capability should not be too far away.  The Fury has one onboard lambda controller so would need one extra if you want to do dual bank closed loop, the Xtreme has no built in lambda controllers so would need 2 external controllers.

A basic overview of the differences on this chart:  https://linkecu.com/products/ecu-comparison-chart/

 

[aconis]

On 3/8/2021 at 7:59 AM, Adamw said:

All of our ECU's support 12cyl, even the baby Atom. 

The Thunder can do 2 DBW and has 2 internal lambda controllers - but be aware it is our older G4+ generation so doesnt have some of the newer features that the G4X ecu's have.   We dont have a Thunder in the G4X platform.

The other option would be something like our G4X Fury or Xtreme, these both have 1 x DBW controller onboard and will soon be able to do 2 x DBW with the addition of our external module.  I believe we have the 2 x DBW firmware working on the bench but it hasnt been widely tested on real engines yet so that capability should not be too far away.  The Fury has one onboard lambda controller so would need one extra if you want to do dual bank closed loop, the Xtreme has no built in lambda controllers so would need 2 external controllers.

A basic overview of the differences on this chart:  https://linkecu.com/products/ecu-comparison-chart/

 

So, basically both Fury and Xtreme can do the job but the only difference is lambda controller.
If Xtreme doesn't have onboard lambda controller this means engine will run according to the maps initially tuned without action taken if AFR doesn't match, am I right?
And if I use Fury I would need second lambda controller connected via CAN to maintain second bank closed loop control?

[Adamw]

On 3/11/2021 at 10:18 AM, aconis said:

If Xtreme doesn't have onboard lambda controller this means engine will run according to the maps initially tuned without action taken if AFR doesn't match, am I right?

It can still do closed loop, just it doesnt have the electronics to control the sensor, you need to use an external controller/gauge connected to ECU via CAN bus or analog input.

 

On 3/11/2021 at 10:18 AM, aconis said:

And if I use Fury I would need second lambda controller connected via CAN to maintain second bank closed loop control?

You can if you like, or you can just use a single sensor in a central location and not worry about 2 bank control.  

 

[koracing]

I view the extra inputs on the Xtreme due to it not using up 5 pins for the wideband to be an advantage over the Fury, plus the lower cost ($1535 vs. $1750).  CAN wideband controllers externally are my preference and still give full functionality of all closed loop bank to bank functions.  The advantage of the internal wideband I think is largely error reporting and startup power control to prevent thermal shocking and potentially extending sensor life.  If you use an output (or some other logic device) to control relays powering the external wideband controllers you can also have control to help prevent thermal shocking vs. just having them on with key power. 

[Vaughan]

1 hour ago, koracing said:

The advantage of the internal wideband I think is largely error reporting and startup power control to prevent thermal shocking and potentially extending sensor life.  If you use an output (or some other logic device) to control relays powering the external wideband controllers you can also have control to help prevent thermal shocking vs. just having them on with key power. 

The Link CAN Lambda doesn't startup until a short time after the engine has started to prevent thermal shock and has all the error reporting functionality on Lambda 1&2 (but not 3-8).

[koracing]

25 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

The Link CAN Lambda doesn't startup until a short time after the engine has started to prevent thermal shock and has all the error reporting functionality on Lambda 1&2 (but not 3-8).

Part of the appeal of that particular CAN lambda device.