Celica st205 Pinouts,Functions & Water/air IC support

[_pkmds]

Hello guys, 

Im new here recently bough a link G4+ for celica st205 ,but as i discovered G4+ doesnt support all OEM pinout.

in couple of days ill get it for tune but i have some objections and i need to find them by myself cause the tuner is like "we dont need these sh#!ts take em off. but before i take everything out if they're useless i need to know atleast how the ECU works. So if someone knows something on the questions below I will be grateful to get an answer.!

1. firstly as i see doesnt support many lines such when you turn on headlights or the brake , defrost e.t.c all these lines sends signal to ECU (STOCK) to increase the RPMs on idle. as i understand LINK ECU can do that with different way since its closed loop right? 
2. I see that doesnt support some pinouts, such the whole Intercooler Water to Air circuit how im supposed to make it work? (i see in newer link G4X supports all pinouts but not G4+) stock ECU has a circuit that takes signal from TPS and controls the PUMP speed accordingly the position of it, at idle i think the pump works at really low speed or maybe doesnt work at all and has another one that sends signal to ECU so it can see if the pump works in situation if is clogged. all these are 4 wires in stock pinout and unfortunately noone of them are supported in the ECU. 
3. Another one is the signal from distributor that sends back to ECU that the engine started up successfully is that useful anymore? or G4+ take this signal with different way?
4. 3SGTE GEN3 has another function with 2 way Fuel pump volt . when the engine has no load and its under 3000RPM has a resistant that keeps the fuel pump on low voltage (8volt i think? could be less i dont remember) when you press the gas at 3000RPM and at particular values from the MAP the relay takes off the resistant and sends the high voltage is possible.
   I took a look on the LINK's program and i saw it has something like that but does the LINK needs the stock circuit or i need to bridge(take off the resistance) it for higher voltage and the ECU can decrease and increase the voltage by itself ?
   
   That's all for now i guess i haven't find anything else that worries me about yet. LOL
   Thanks in advance

[Vaughan]

32 minutes ago, _pkmds said:

firstly as i see doesnt support many lines such when you turn on headlights or the brake , defrost e.t.c all these lines sends signal to ECU (STOCK) to increase the RPMs on idle. as i understand LINK ECU can do that with different way since its closed loop right? 

Yes the ECU can use Closed Loop Idle position control and/or Idle Ignition control to adjust for variations of engine load at idle.

34 minutes ago, _pkmds said:

I see that doesnt support some pinouts, such the whole Intercooler Water to Air circuit how im supposed to make it work? (i see in newer link G4X supports all pinouts but not G4+) stock ECU has a circuit that takes signal from TPS and controls the PUMP speed accordingly the position of it, at idle i think the pump works at really low speed or maybe doesnt work at all and has another one that sends signal to ECU so it can see if the pump works in situation if is clogged. all these are 4 wires in stock pinout and unfortunately noone of them are supported in the ECU. 

As far as I'm aware there is no difference in the bottom board between G4+ and G4X.

41 minutes ago, _pkmds said:

3SGTE GEN3 has another function with 2 way Fuel pump volt . when the engine has no load and its under 3000RPM has a resistant that keeps the fuel pump on low voltage (8volt i think? could be less i dont remember) when you press the gas at 3000RPM and at particular values from the MAP the relay takes off the resistant and sends the high voltage is possible.
I took a look on the LINK's program and i saw it has something like that but does the LINK needs the stock circuit or i need to bridge(take off the resistance) it for higher voltage and the ECU can decrease and increase the voltage by itself ?

The 2 speed fuel pump can be used with the factory setup (Aux 4 and Aux 7) or if you want to use pwm control from the ecu you will need to change to a solid state relay.

[Adamw]

The intercooler pump is controlled by Inj5 (or ign4 on some models), you can set this up as a GP output to switch the pump on under whatever conditions you like.  I would suggest just set it to switch on when "RPM>500" so it runs all the time the engine is running.  The pump running feedback is not used.  

[_pkmds]

13 hours ago, Vaughan said:

Yes the ECU can use Closed Loop Idle position control and/or Idle Ignition control to adjust for variations of engine load at idle.

 

So i guess everything that is feedback signal like the above i said are not useful anymore right?   

13 hours ago, Vaughan said:

As far as I'm aware there is no difference in the bottom board between G4+ and G4X.

 

G4X manual pinout shows that supports more outputs from stock wiring compared to G4+. if you download G4+ PNP for my engine and G4X PNP manual and go to pinouts diagram page you'll see that supports more wirings. many of them are inputs but i dont know if G4X has this ability to convert an output to input. For example i saw today that there's not digital input on stock wiring to support the stock Oil pressure switch sensor, i need to draw new wire on expansion Digital inputs if i want to use that. am i correct?

13 hours ago, Vaughan said:

The 2 speed fuel pump can be used with the factory setup (Aux 4 and Aux 7) or if you want to use pwm control from the ecu you will need to change to a solid state relay.

I guess 2 speed fuel pump is not that usefull anymore nowdays right? you fixing your economy with tuning by the injectors and timing values. so there's no point to activate 2 speed fuel pump especially on aftermarket Fuel pumps because as i know most of them increase too much AMPs on low volts and they get fried. 

 

Thank you very much about your replies man ! 

[_pkmds]

13 hours ago, Adamw said:

The intercooler pump is controlled by Inj5 (or ign4 on some models), you can set this up as a GP output to switch the pump on under whatever conditions you like.  I would suggest just set it to switch on when "RPM>500" so it runs all the time the engine is running.  The pump running feedback is not used.  

How did you find it? you checked stock pinouts and compare with G4+s?

Today i was searching around the program and i found that G4+ supports one output wire which THANKFULLY is the power line (INT) that gives to intercooler water pump. its on Aux output (fuel) on Injector drive 5 and i applied function GP OUT with with 2 ways one is to start up on 800rpm (my idle its gonna be 950) so its gonna be on always and the second to not start it up if the ITs are lower than 5 degrees incase if the fluid is frozen or whatever. atleast the pump works now.

I need also install the feedback of the pump to the ECU on a Digital Input for warning cell/fault code incase if the water pump is clogged/broken. is that possible ?

Also i have another one question,the program categorizes the outputs. for example the wire i'm interested of is on aux-fuel category as you see. Does it matter? does affect anything on Fueling or whatever? or in case if you want to install 5th or 6th injector so it be near of the others?( i have picture about that to understand what im talking about)

 

Thanks for the helping! 

[koracing]

The M+ and M- motor power and ground for the water intercooler pump are not supported in the pinout on the Link Plug-in adapter boards.  They have an ouptut on INJ5 for the INT pin on the stock ecu header, and you could possibly use that to control a relay to provide power to the intercooler pump (M+ Wire if you depin from ecu or disconnect from ecu) and then ground the M- wire - at least that's how I would assume you could make it work.  

The OEM distributor has 4 pins, but there is a redundant cam sync the Link does not use - don't worry about that as almost every aftermarket ecu doesn't use both cam sync signals - they are 180 deg apart and it would be maybe be an extra difficulty to make function for little or no benefit.

The ELS pin "Electrical Load Sensing" is not used by the Link Plug-in adapter boards either, but would be nice to up the idle when necessary due to excess electrical load.  

Hey Link: Any chance we can get the 3sgte application boards updated - possibly with onboard MAP as well? #wishfulthinkinglol

[Adamw]

24 minutes ago, koracing said:

The M+ and M- motor power and ground for the water intercooler pump are not supported in the pinout on the Link Plug-in adapter boards.  They have an ouptut on INJ5 for the INT pin on the stock ecu header, and you could possibly use that to control a relay to provide power to the intercooler pump (M+ Wire if you depin from ecu or disconnect from ecu) and then ground the M- wire - at least that's how I would assume you could make it work.  

The intercooler pump works correctly as is with our ECU with no modification, it is controlled by "INT".  The MTT, M+ & M- pins are only used to monitor voltage/current at the motor. 

 

5 hours ago, _pkmds said:

I need also install the feedback of the pump to the ECU on a Digital Input for warning cell/fault code incase if the water pump is clogged/broken. is that possible ?

Not really.  It is not a digital signal, the feedback circuit is a weird 3 wire analog signal representing motor current.  You are probably best to just set up a warning lamp for high IAT or similar. 

 

5 hours ago, _pkmds said:

Also i have another one question,the program categorizes the outputs. for example the wire i'm interested of is on aux-fuel category as you see. Does it matter? does affect anything on Fueling or whatever? or in case if you want to install 5th or 6th injector so it be near of the others?( i have picture about that to understand what im talking about)

Inj 7 & 8 drives arent available on this ECU, if you wanted an extra fuel injector you would have to use the aux injection function with outputs Inj 5 and/or  6.  Charge cooler pump and oxy heater would need to be moved to different outputs.  

 

5 hours ago, _pkmds said:

How did you find it? you checked stock pinouts and compare with G4+s?

It is in the help file and manual pin functions list:

 

6 hours ago, _pkmds said:

G4X manual pinout shows that supports more outputs from stock wiring compared to G4+. if you download G4+ PNP for my engine and G4X PNP manual and go to pinouts diagram page you'll see that supports more wirings. many of them are inputs but i dont know if G4X has this ability to convert an output to input. For example i saw today that there's not digital input on stock wiring to support the stock Oil pressure switch sensor, i need to draw new wire on expansion Digital inputs if i want to use that. am i correct?

G4X manual has just been updated to show the full pinout.  G4+ pinouts used to only show pins that were relevant to set up.  Oil pressure switch is only connected to the dash board.  If you want to connect it to the ecu then yes, you can connect to a DI.  You would be better to use a pressure sensor however rather than a switch.  

[_pkmds]

1 hour ago, koracing said:

The M+ and M- motor power and ground for the water intercooler pump are not supported in the pinout on the Link Plug-in adapter boards.  They have an ouptut on INJ5 for the INT pin on the stock ecu header, and you could possibly use that to control a relay to provide power to the intercooler pump (M+ Wire if you depin from ecu or disconnect from ecu) and then ground the M- wire - at least that's how I would assume you could make it work.  

Well i did it that way ,power's up the pump on 800RPM if the inlet temperature is above 10 degrees celcius. all i need is to draw a wire for MTT that is the pump's feedback that shows is on or off.

1 hour ago, koracing said:

The OEM distributor has 4 pins, but there is a redundant cam sync the Link does not use - don't worry about that as almost every aftermarket ecu doesn't use both cam sync signals - they are 180 deg apart and it would be maybe be an extra difficulty to make function for little or no benefit.

So i dont have to worry about then for these. Thanks for all this information tho.

 

1 hour ago, koracing said:

The ELS pin "Electrical Load Sensing" is not used by the Link Plug-in adapter boards either, but would be nice to up the idle when necessary due to excess electrical load.  

Hey Link: Any chance we can get the 3sgte application boards updated - possibly with onboard MAP as well? #wishfulthinkinglol

i'd like to have 950 RPM on idle but i think if you setup your IDLE on 950RPM and incase you turn on foglights that they have power consumption LINK will fix automatically the idle to 950rpm is that corrrect or its impossible to do that ? 

Well im really big fun of your work you doing on SW20s and you searching it too much on 3SGTEs. sadly im not in US. Anyways im worried about the start up with that tuner because he's not so experienced on stock wiring 3SGTE but anyways we'll see at the end i guess LOL.

also i've another question on AUX output (IGN) theres a function "PURGE" this pinout is the EVP1 which is the evaporator canister is that function correct for this ? what "PURGE" means exactly ? because when in started the engine had really bad idling(like 1800-2000 rpm?),unstable idle , cutting offs and when got warmed up had 16-17 AFR.when the engine was going to die because the idle was unstable that "PURGE" function was going "ON" - "OFF". I tried to fix the warm-coldstart or atleast the idle but seriously i didn't understand a word . also needs recalibration on timing i guess so the LINK can see that is on 10 degrees right? (the distributor was fixed on 10 degrees with E1-TE1 bridged on stock ECU like manual says with timing light "pistol" )

THANKS ALOT!

[koracing]

Yes the idle control in the Link when properly tuned will try to correct for any situation that may decrease idle such as electrical load, without the use of the extra input.  Usually this isn't too much trouble in most situations, but it can under heavy load be a little less smooth than if that input were used.

[Adamw]

5 minutes ago, _pkmds said:

also i've another question on AUX output (IGN) theres a function "PURGE" this pinout is the EVP1 which is the evaporator canister is that function correct for this ? what "PURGE" means exactly ? because when in started the engine had really bad idling(like 1800-2000 rpm?),unstable idle , cutting offs and when got warmed up had 16-17 AFR.when the engine was going to die because the idle was unstable that "PURGE" function was going "ON" - "OFF".

 

5 minutes ago, _pkmds said:

also needs recalibration on timing i guess so the LINK can see that is on 10 degrees right? (the distributor was fixed on 10 degrees with E1-TE1 bridged on stock ECU like manual says with timing light "pistol" )

You need to set the base timing as per the instructions in the manual.

[koracing]

The TE1 and E1 jumper in the factory diagnostic port won't fix timing in the Link - you'll have to refer to the help menu to do this.  It is, however, possible to make the TE1 pin work like the OEM does request does and fix the timing at 10deg, but it require wiring modification to run to a digital input on the Link and setting up a fixed timing input request - a lot of work again, for little gain as you can also fix the timing by going through the calibration procedure outlined in the help manual.

[_pkmds]

37 minutes ago, Adamw said:

6 hours ago, _pkmds said:

I need also install the feedback of the pump to the ECU on a Digital Input for warning cell/fault code incase if the water pump is clogged/broken. is that possible ?

Not really.  It is not a digital signal, the feedback circuit is a weird 3 wire analog signal representing motor current.  You are probably best to just set up a warning lamp for high IAT or similar. 

Well if its not Digital signal so probably i'll get in trouble for something ain't worth i guess.i've done that for IAT warning already as alternative .

 

15 minutes ago, Adamw said:

22 minutes ago, _pkmds said:

also i've another question on AUX output (IGN) theres a function "PURGE" this pinout is the EVP1 which is the evaporator canister is that function correct for this ? what "PURGE" means exactly ? because when in started the engine had really bad idling(like 1800-2000 rpm?),unstable idle , cutting offs and when got warmed up had 16-17 AFR.when the engine was going to die because the idle was unstable that "PURGE" function was going "ON" - "OFF".

so i leave it as it. got it 

 

37 minutes ago, Adamw said:

6 hours ago, _pkmds said:

Also i have another one question,the program categorizes the outputs. for example the wire i'm interested of is on aux-fuel category as you see. Does it matter? does affect anything on Fueling or whatever? or in case if you want to install 5th or 6th injector so it be near of the others?( i have picture about that to understand what im talking about)

Inj 7 & 8 drives arent available on this ECU, if you wanted an extra fuel injector you would have to use the aux injection function with outputs Inj 5 and/or  6.  Charge cooler pump and oxy heater would need to be moved to different outputs.  

im not saying that i need specifically to add more fuel injectors im just saying that if i want to add something extra i can use these outputs i guess?i will also pinout the OXY heater because i changed the narrowband to wideband so its not useful anymore.

11 minutes ago, koracing said:

The TE1 and E1 jumper in the factory diagnostic port won't fix timing in the Link - you'll have to refer to the help menu to do this.  It is, however, possible to make the TE1 pin work like the OEM does request does and fix the timing at 10deg, but it require wiring modification to run to a digital input on the Link and setting up a fixed timing input request - a lot of work again, for little gain as you can also fix the timing by going through the calibration procedure outlined in the help manual.

well i wasn't get in trouble for reconnect the diagnostic box in to LINK for sure. Tuner told me that he will calibrate the timings and incase if i change or loose the distributor i should have it marked before i do it and there's a function in the PC program that reset it to normal again . is that correct or i understood wrong ?

[koracing]

Yes you can always use the software to calibrate the timing to ensure it's correct.  Marking the distributor later if you change it or remove and reinstall it should make this less work, but doesn't make it certain that the timing is correct 100% after reinstalling.  The only way to verify the timing is synchronized with the distributor and ecu is to use a timing light and calibration function in the ecu to fix the timing and ensure they match.

[_pkmds]

1 minute ago, koracing said:

Yes you can always use the software to calibrate the timing to ensure it's correct.  Marking the distributor later if you change it or remove and reinstall it should make this less work, but doesn't make it certain that the timing is correct 100% after reinstalling.  The only way to verify the timing is synchronized with the distributor and ecu is to use a timing light and calibration function in the ecu to fix the timing and ensure they match.

AAAA.. So there's same function as the "E1-TE1" in the LINK program. and what is that work ? enabling the calibration function with loose distributor and timing light and doing it like you do on STOCK ecu ? what E1-TE1 does exactly? just decreases to stable 500RPM so you can calibrate it easily ?

[koracing]

The factory diagnostic mode is enabled by jumping TE1 (Test pin) to E1 (ground).  This on a factory ecu will cause the ecu to fix timing at 10deg advance so you can move the distributor to match, as well as have the ecu flash out engine codes stored or active in the ecu. 

The functional part of this that you would be be trying to replicate in the Link is the part that fixes the timing at a specific value - you can change it in the link to any number you desire - but 10 or 15 degrees is most common as those are the most prominent and easy to see timing marks on the OEM timing cover.  The trigger calibration mode in the link for setting a fixed timing value does not affect the check engine light or cause it to flash out codes.  You can, however, change the offset angle in the link software rather than move the distributor to make the timing value match (much more convenient).  So read in the help menu on how to do this and you should be good to go.

[_pkmds]

On 3/9/2022 at 3:07 AM, koracing said:

The factory diagnostic mode is enabled by jumping TE1 (Test pin) to E1 (ground).  This on a factory ecu will cause the ecu to fix timing at 10deg advance so you can move the distributor to match, as well as have the ecu flash out engine codes stored or active in the ecu. 

The functional part of this that you would be be trying to replicate in the Link is the part that fixes the timing at a specific value - you can change it in the link to any number you desire - but 10 or 15 degrees is most common as those are the most prominent and easy to see timing marks on the OEM timing cover.  The trigger calibration mode in the link for setting a fixed timing value does not affect the check engine light or cause it to flash out codes.  You can, however, change the offset angle in the link software rather than move the distributor to make the timing value match (much more convenient).  So read in the help menu on how to do this and you should be good to go.

The tuner tuned it yesterday, expect the thing that he locked the ECU and i cant see anything anymore, he messed up everything on IDLE control valves. the engine wont decrease rpms lower than 1000rpm. supposed it has base rpm to 900 and he fully closed the idle control valve bearly breaths from there and he made the AC idle control valve as base .i discovered it today.i can't reach him on phone and the car at cold start or generally on cold weather drives like arse at low rpm and and when you press the gas pedal little bit aggressive the engine goes almost to shut down and i think this happens because the AC valve is to small to feed the throttle body and because this valve has the hose on Intercooler and not direct on throttle like the normal idle control valve. Definetely the AC doesnt even start up...

[koracing]

I'm personally against locking out tunes - particularly if you're paying the tuner for the work.  Not much you can do without getting access to the tune at this point unless you want to start over with someone else.

[_pkmds]

1 hour ago, koracing said:

I'm personally against locking out tunes - particularly if you're paying the tuner for the work.  Not much you can do without getting access to the tune at this point unless you want to start over with someone else.

i guess link needs to update their program without password protection since the ECU is customer's and not tuner's. anyways 

[Confused]

Oh dear that sucks!

Hopefully you've got a backup of how it was before you let that idiot loose on it - you can restore your previous backup, overwriting the current locked tune.

(I think you can also save off the current locked tune as a file on your laptop and you can restore it again later)

I would always recommend that one of the requirements that's asked of your tuner is that they do not lock your ECU - and if they don't agree to that (and spout some rubbish about it being their right to protect their work etc) then walk away.

The ability to lock it is possibly due to some of the usage within motorsport where a set ECU & tune is developed and shared across all competitors.

[_pkmds]

2 hours ago, Confused said:

Oh dear that sucks!

Hopefully you've got a backup of how it was before you let that idiot loose on it - you can restore your previous backup, overwriting the current locked tune.

(I think you can also save off the current locked tune as a file on your laptop and you can restore it again later)

I would always recommend that one of the requirements that's asked of your tuner is that they do not lock your ECU - and if they don't agree to that (and spout some rubbish about it being their right to protect their work etc) then walk away.

The ability to lock it is possibly due to some of the usage within motorsport where a set ECU & tune is developed and shared across all competitors.

Well there's only one tuned MAP .i have a MAP unlocked which i saved because i calibrated everything and wire in some extra things i wanted and ignition calibration but its without the tune he did . Generally the entire setup was from me he just tuned it on DYNO and he locked. The funniest thing is that the deal was to not lock the MAP since i paid him full price and the ECU obviously is mine and he said "i nEvEr lEaVe mY wOrK uNpRotEcTeD" 

BRUH...seriously that kind of people pisses me off, they acting like you didn't paid them. because he tuned it doesnt mean that the map belongs to him.I'll find way to get the MAP and i will fix the idle by myself i have no trust to this guy anymore. If you did work for rally car or something that you didnt even have base map and you have special settings in it i'd that you can lock it..whatever i don't know seriously since someone paid something it belongs to him .doesn't matter who made it or whatever else.