EVO 8 V44 plugin - no knock or speed input?

[paulr33]

hi all

since changing to the other v44 topboard (same model, same version) my car drives like absolute ass when its cold - warm / hot is OK but cold is completely hopeless. it wants to stall non stop, idle is ass (idles at 2400rpm) and during gear changes i get this invisibile fuel cut feeling each time. the procedure i used to swap is as follows

 

unplug battery

remove old vipec v44 (firmware 4.9.8 i think = definetly not same as new vipec)

fit new vipec v44

reconnect battery

turn key to on, but dont start car

load in previous vipec v44 tune

VTS tells me to download latest version as Vipec v44 is running newer firmware (4.9.9 i think)

clear all errors and save

car off

car on and start

all OK no errors in logs - "real time values" window looks OK and nothing obvious

 

ill check out whats changed in 4.9.9 but any ideas or clues? ill check what my logs show

 

[paulr33]

a few minor differences between the vipec's

 

 

firmware is obviously different

what about BAP and MAP calibration? do i need to do these?

[paulr33]

Happy to try map sensor calibration but the help file doesn't give much. Info on what to do? Is it self calibrating ? Do I leave the vac lines connected etc?

[JMP]

always do a MAP calibration and TPS calibration when you switch ECU's, I also do a trigger check to ensure the timing offset and delay don't need a tweak.  I'd also open two copies of VTS side-by-side, open your current map in one and the map from the old ECU in the other.  Then run through each setting screen one by one and ensure that all items are identical.  You will likely find a new configuration item or two that have been introduced in the new firmware that need to be set correctly.

[paulr33]

ok thanks will do, whats involved in map sensor calibration? does it simply run through it automatically when i choose it from the menu or do i have to run a hard set pressure source onto the map sensor at some magical value then do calibration? just need to know if i have to disconnect VAC lines etc or run a different pressure source during calibartion

[JMP]

no need to do anything special for the map sensor calibration, just select it from the interface and it's a very quick and easy operation.  My understanding is that the MAP is compared to the onboard BAP with the engine off where they both should read pretty close to 100kpa depending on sea level

[paulr33]

Ok thanks will give it a shot tomorrow. I was more worried it would edit the map sensor scale or ramp values but I can always just load the previous over the top if need be

[paulr33]

holy shit balls, check out the fuel table compare, big difference from vacuum to 0 pressure, numbers are completely different...... has it precaculated this or something based no map sensor calibration? I dont understand why it would modify the actual fuel table values? the new vipec with same previous tune is running tons less fuel under 0 pressure - i.e light cruise - which explains the invisible wall feeling i was talking about - ie fuel cut

 

[paulr33]

all fixed, updated the fuel table and also did map sensor calibration and TPS and all good, thanks for the help.

i still have a stupid 2900rpm idle when cold, but ive got lots to prove that now so should just be a matter of looking at logs to see why

[paulr33]

ive uploaded current tune and "on board ecu log" in case anyone feels like troubleshooting my mega 2800rpm IDLE =)

its only on cold start so i guess its one of the correction values etc, ill spend some time on it shortly

i did do a PC record log but for some reason the vipec didnt connect properly so only got onboard logging

i can replicate it but will have to wait until tomorrow when its stone cold again

 

http://www.paulr33.com/evo/current.zip

 

thanks for everyones help

 

v helpful people on here

 

[Scott]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the log and base-map. I suspect that the idle control is most likely causing the high idle. If you can get a PCLog to record, and can upload it we'll be able to see what the idle system is up to. Do you happen to have a PC log of your vehicle warming up correctly on the old top-board? Would be nice to compare the logs for differences.

Scott

[paulr33]

ok here is a PC log of the idle issue, it was the same with the old vipec so its not a new issue i just never got around to fixing it

note this is with a stone cold evo, stroker kit, mega cams and large injectors so i dont expect perfect idle but this its nuts, over 2000rpm IDLE, see logs

 

http://www.paulr33.com/evo/recent.zip

 

 

idle

 

 

this is with the car in the garage, stone cold. at first it seems ok around 1300rpm, then if it tap the throttle it cranks right up, if i continue to repeat it cranks up the idle RPM even more and likewise when i move the steering wheel, even more RPM until it peaks around 2300rpm. should see it when i try and reverse it down the drive, its hopeless, over 2500rpm idle in some cases and it rev's its ass off

[Scott]

Hi Paul,

I think the main cause of the problem is your ign angle. At the beginning of the log the ign angle is coming from the idle ignition table, but when the throttle gets touched the ign angle starts being read from ign table 1, as the idle ign activation conditions are no longer true. The high ign angle then keeps the engine speed up. Towards the end of the log, when the engine speed drops back down you can see the ign angle is once again being read from the idle ign table.

Try raising the TP/FP and RPM Lockouts temporarily to see if this is the culprit. 

Scott.

 

[paulr33]

Thanks , should I change both the TPS % and RPM lockout at the same time? What's a reasoable setting for RPM lockout?  Perhaps I'll try 2200rpm for RPM Lockout would this be enough to test it?

[JMP]

to test if the idle ignition is having an impact, I'd turn off ignition idle control.  If it still plays up, I'd then set it to open-loop idle and tune the base position table.  Once the base position table is right I'd then enable closed loop, make any fine adjustments as required, then enable ignition idle control for that last level of refinement.

[paulr33]

thanks will try tonight

[paulr33]

I've noticed its harder to start my car in the cold winter, do I need to adjust fuel correction to add in more fuel when it's really cold? This is with 98RON and a strong battery always connected to CTEK charger.

I usually turn key to ON wait a good 10aecs for everything to wake up then try and crank the engine. In winter it definetly takes a few more cranks before it fires up.

 

[JMP]

cars generally start easier rich than lean, try adding more fuel correction to cold start

[paulr33]

thanks for the help, the idle speed control fix of adjusting the RPM lockout made it idle a fair bit better, still the occassional 2000+rpm but it behaves a lot better now

 

with the cold start enrichment i made changes as per below but didnt notice any difference....

should I consider changing my pre-crank mode from IGN to key-ON and dial in a whole heap of pre-fuel for when its cold?

 

[Scott]

With your wideband O2 sensor, are you able to get is heated up and operating before starting the engine? If yes, then I would do this, and then log your startups, so you can then analyse at what point of the cold start process you need to make changes.

It would also be worth trying to adjust your Idle Speed Control > Startup Step table.

Scott.

[paulr33]

I've purchased redarc.com.au sensors for oil temp and oil pressure and ive been told these are direct plug and play into the vipec. I was expecting to see pin outs with the sensors and also voltage scales for the sensors, but the sensors didnt come with either. ive sent the supplier a note asking about this info but wondering if anyone else has used their sensors for inputs into the vipec? I am after the voltage scales for each sensor (oil temp and oil pressure) and also the pin outs so i know which is the signal wire etc.

 

Thanks and if I hear back from the vendor I will post the data up here

[Scott]

Possibly the sensor calibrations will match something we have, but would be good if the vendor can confirm the calibrations.

Scott

[JMP]

they look like the generic china copy sensors, I'll bet the temp sensor is NTC and the pressure sensor is 0.5V @‌ 0psi and 4.5V @‌ 150psi with the same pinout as all the other pressure sensors with a Packard plug: http://microtechefi.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/0-150.pdf

 

[paulr33]

manated to find some info,

 

redarc oil temp sensor

http://www.tayao.com.tw/auto01.html

 

redarc oil pressure sensor

http://www.pressuresensorsuppliers.com/up/doc/58117025aff70.pdf

 

 

the oil pressure one was easy, but the temperature one is a tayao sensor, the markings on the sensor are TAYAO609 and it says -20 to 170deg but i cant find any voltage ramps etc

do i just assume -20 is 0v and 170deg is 5v ????

 

 

[Scott]

You could use a thermometer, a freezer, a pot, some water, a stove and a multimeter to gather some results. Measure the resistance of the sensor at various temperatures. Try and make slow changes to the tempearure to give the sensor time to respond and also for the water temp to stabilise. Here are some of the calibrations in the firmware:

If your test results do not match you can then use your data in a customer calibration table.

Scott