Help on impreza gc8 settings

[Fabio]

Hy all,

Needing some help on understand why my link g4x on impreza v3 does not read knock signal, it is at 0 all the time

Also if someone could be so kind to share idle settings because I am not able to reach a stable closed loop idle

 

Thanks

Fabio

[Adamw]

Please attach a copy of your tune and a log.

BTW, I deleted your other post so you don't end up with 2 different threads for the same subject going in different directions.  

 

[Fabio]

19 hours ago, Adamw said:

Please attach a copy of your tune and a log.

BTW, I deleted your other post so you don't end up with 2 different threads for the same subject going in different directions.  

 

 

PC Datalog - 2023-05-20 9;44;43 am.llgx fabio base map startup open loop modelled.pclx

[Fabio]

Hy Adam, 

Sent you files, I found the problem, I left disable input on, a bit tricky to note for me.

Anyway now knock level is negatuve number as you can see..how could it be?

 

If you are so kind to check my knock settings and idle settings to let me know if there is something wrong I ll appreciate that 

I just started mapping and knock settings is something I m not sure about

Thank you

Fabio

[Adamw]

Your idle control is set to open loop in the log so I cant tell you much about why closed loop isn't working.  Did you ever have it set to closed loop?  With no data to reference the only thing that jumps out at me is your MAP lockout is too low, set it to about 70kpa.  Do a log with closed loop enabled if you want further help.

I also cant tell you much about knock control since the log is mostly only an idling engine, but there are no negative knock levels reported in the log as you claim?  Otherwise the basic knock settings look ok, I would suggest you assign a separate knock table to each cylinder and set the retard limit to 0 until the system is tuned and proven to be detecting knock well.    

[Fabio]

Again thank you very much for your help I will try to improve things as much as I can now that I know base settings.

Why should I assign one knock table per cylinder if my ignition system is batch fire?

There is no the possibility to retard ignition on a single cylinder

Am I missing something that Idon t understand on this?

Thank you

Fabio

Hy Adam, 

Sent you files, I found the problem, I left disable input on, a bit tricky to note for me.

Anyway now knock level is negatuve number as you can see..how could it be?

 

If you are so kind to check my knock settings and idle settings to let me know if there is something wrong I ll appreciate that 

I just started mapping and knock settings is something I m not sure about

Thank you

Fabio

Sorry forgot to ask you what numbers of knock should I aim for say from idle to limiter, some peole told me not to go over 500 at high revs others told me 50 

If you give me a reference number I will try to tune knock signal to that

 

Thank you

Fabio

[Adamw]

9 minutes ago, Fabio said:

Why should I assign one knock table per cylinder if my ignition system is batch fire?

There is no the possibility to retard ignition on a single cylinder

You have a crank and cam sensor capable of 720deg cycle positioning, the ecu knows which cylinder in knocking and it can retard the spark just on the cylinder that is knocking.  

[Fabio]

Sorry forgot to ask you what numbers of knock should I aim for say from idle to limiter, some peole told me not to go over 500 at high revs others told me 50 

Thank you

Fabio

[Fabio]

On 5/20/2023 at 1:16 PM, Adamw said:

You have a crank and cam sensor capable of 720deg cycle positioning, the ecu knows which cylinder in knocking and it can retard the spark just on the cylinder that is knocking.  

Hy Adam, 

I made a log and modified basemap, now car is running and I m starting tuning procedure

May I ask you to have a look at my settings to tell me if there is something out of place or if basic settings are ok?

Especially knock settings, now I included a log with car running

 

Thank you for your help

Fabio

fabio base map startup open loop modelled (1).pclx

Log is too big I cannot send it thru this forum,are there other ways?

[Adamw]

You can upload your file to a file sharing service and just post a link here.  Onedrive, google drive, dropbox, wetransfer etc.  

[Fabio]

23 hours ago, Adamw said:

You can upload your file to a file sharing service and just post a link here.  Onedrive, google drive, dropbox, wetransfer etc.  

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_hnFNkSnsvMgGqCPtJnnm6V_BVKdX1bH/view?usp=drivesdk

3 minutes ago, Fabio said:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_hnFNkSnsvMgGqCPtJnnm6V_BVKdX1bH/view?usp=drivesdk

Turbocharger is on wastegate pressure on purpouse,as soon as I know My settings are ok I will start to increase boost 

Is it better to map ve table on low boost and increase when ve is mapped or just start with the boost Ieant to reach in the end?

[dx4picco]

Try on wastegate pressure first to have your fuel map  in the ball park.

I usually see a difference in VE in those medium pressure when I tune firtst on gate then at normal boost. so to avoid to make it twice, once its safe to raise the boost then do it.

the thing is when tuning on gate, let's say you will reach 160kpa, and that is with 100tps.

once raising boost, you will likely reach those 160kpa with 60tps, and at that point VE will be lower/less efficient.

so if you tune for gate then raise boost you will most likely be too rich at positive boost but partial throttle.

[Adamw]

I would turn off closed loop lambda and knock control while tuning.  Your accel fuel cold correction table has zeros in it so this needs to be fixed, it should be 1.0 at normal operating temp and say 2-5 for a cold engine.  Your charge temp approximation table needs realistic values in it before tuning, copy the example from the help file as a starting point.   

[Fabio]

16 hours ago, dx4picco said:

Try on wastegate pressure first to have your fuel map  in the ball park.

I usually see a difference in VE in those medium pressure when I tune firtst on gate then at normal boost. so to avoid to make it twice, once its safe to raise the boost then do it.

the thing is when tuning on gate, let's say you will reach 160kpa, and that is with 100tps.

once raising boost, you will likely reach those 160kpa with 60tps, and at that point VE will be lower/less efficient.

so if you tune for gate then raise boost you will most likely be too rich at positive boost but partial throttle.

Thank you for your response 

I understand and believe what you said and as soon as ve is in the ballpark I will activate boost control and raise boost

Did you happen to have a look at the knock numbers on the log?

What peak number should Iaim for on knock signal to be correct?

 

Thank you

Fabio

16 hours ago, Adamw said:

I would turn off closed loop lambda and knock control while tuning.  Your accel fuel cold correction table has zeros in it so this needs to be fixed, it should be 1.0 at normal operating temp and say 2-5 for a cold engine.  Your charge temp approximation table needs realistic values in it before tuning, copy the example from the help file as a starting point.   

Ok disable both,did you have a look at knock numbers on log?

Do thei seem reasonable or shoul I increase/decrease main gain or change frequency?

Fir the approximation table do you mean press f1 and copy a table from the help file?

 

Thank you

Fabio

[koracing]

Personally in a no-knock situation I like to see the knock values reach a maximum of about 600-700ish.  I would adjust gain until you get full range of knock readings out to that value.  Free revving in neutral at about 3000 rpm around 200 or so on the knock runtime values.

I don't think you can copy the table in the help file - you'll just have to enter the values.

[Adamw]

If it is an EJ20 based engine I would try normalised mode, then variables like RPM, load, distance from the sensor, mechanical noise etc has very little effect on the threshold.  Copy all the settings out of our WRX11 base map.

[Fabio]

17 hours ago, koracing said:

Personally in a no-knock situation I like to see the knock values reach a maximum of about 600-700ish.  I would adjust gain until you get full range of knock readings out to that value.  Free revving in neutral at about 3000 rpm around 200 or so on the knock runtime values.

I don't think you can copy the table in the help file - you'll just have to enter the values.

Thank you for your help

 

What is the maximun global gain I can use?

With a number of 2 i get signal around 40 50 peak

With gain 40 i get around 150 170

Is it better to leave a low global gain and increase the individual cylinder gains?

 

Thank you

Fabio

[Adamw]

If you need gain that high then I suspect you have an issue with the sensor or wiring.  I dont remember seeing any engine that needed a gain higher than about 8.

[Fabio]

4 hours ago, Adamw said:

If you need gain that high then I suspect you have an issue with the sensor or wiring.  I dont remember seeing any engine that needed a gain higher than about 8.

Even if knock sensor is stock one wire?

So If I put a gain of say 8 and get signal around 500 high revs should be ok?

What is the max gain per cilinder I can use?

 

Thank you

Fabio

[koracing]

I don't think Adam is saying it's 100% wrong, but it just seems to be off from what his experience has shown to work.  You would need to do some wide open throttle pulls without knocking to know for sure what the reading range is through the full rpm band.  Then you would possibly need to introduce light knock on one cylinder to verify it's reporting it properly.  The last part is obviously a risk on any cast piston stock motor so care needs to be taken if your motor is all stock internally as catastrophic engine damage *can* occur.

[Fabio]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OMTTFHcAzWgqmsOWkccmNr1QbKSDrCEQ/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UxG82u3Efvz2GiUQIdoTwZV2xbL82DZf/view?usp=drivesdk

Hy mapping experts, here are log file and base map with knock gain at 8 (as Adam said ) could you tell me if the readings are ok and true so I can adjust per cylinder gain?

 

I m sorry but I have problems on understand this knock feature 

 

Thank you

Fabio

[koracing]

Your links are not allowing access - you will need to change the permissions on sharing them.

[Fabio]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OMTTFHcAzWgqmsOWkccmNr1QbKSDrCEQ/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UxG82u3Efvz2GiUQIdoTwZV2xbL82DZf/view?usp=drivesdk

Hy mapping experts, here are log file and base map with knock gain at 8 (as Adam said ) could you tell me if the readings are ok and true so I can adjust per cylinder gain?

 

I m sorry but I have problems on understand this knock feature 

 

Thank you

Fabio

I tried to change setting, now you should be able to see log and basemap 

I noticed something else on the CLL

I tried to increase map and tps delta lockout because as you can see on the log CLL goes to map/tps delta too much and even if delta is not over the setting.

I don t understand why, sometimes locks on "engine cut" even If tps is over 5-6%

Also overrun fuel cut stays active even when tps is over the settings 

I have no idea what to do about this

 

Thank you

Fabio