jimmylemon Posted August 17, 2023 Report Share Posted August 17, 2023 Hi, I have a nissan 26/30, when taking off "briskly" sometimes it will rev out fine, sometimes it backfires and doesn't appear to reach limiter. I capture a log tonight where it occurred once, if someone could possibly take a look as to the cause it would be much appreciated. I noted after it did it, I could see a red warning about limiter activated, but again it appears to be doing it too low in the rev range. I wanted to also see if it had any trigger faults. See attached. See log below as its 20mb, attached is ecu. https://thelemons-my.sharepoint.com/:u:/g/personal/james_thelemons_com_au/ESo_S0TSa1BDunyaGMugVXQBp4qcINml2emIAWTx-Wd9rg?e=hR9j99 Cheers. james_ecu.pclr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essb00 Posted August 17, 2023 Report Share Posted August 17, 2023 Looks like you are having trigger errors (as RPM would sometimes shoot up in the log). I cannot confirm though as your log did not have trigger signals included. 'Add all' parameters in the 'Setup Logging', then save another log with the similar runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted August 17, 2023 Report Share Posted August 17, 2023 There are 4 spots in that log where you get a trigger error and the RPM spikes very high, this trips the RPM limit. Its always at fairly high RPM, about 7000 is earliest it happened. I see you have a 36-2 crank trigger with a hall effect sensor, do you know what specific sensor it is using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmylemon Posted August 18, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2023 This one here Adam: https://www.efisolutions.com.au/zf-cherry-hall-sensor-red-m12 I did select all when going to log setup before running the log session. It has two of these one on crank and one on ex cam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted August 18, 2023 Report Share Posted August 18, 2023 Ok, so two things to try. The first one is change the trig 1 filter level to 1. If you are still getting trig errors with the filter reduced then I would next try a stronger pull-up resistor, these sensors get a bit slow if the pull-up isn't strong enough. The ecu's built-in pull-up is 4.7K to 5V, ZF's datasheet recommends 1K if powered by 5V or 2.4K if powered by 12V. Turn off the ecu pull-up when you do this. Dont worry about the cam sensor, just the crank due to the tooth count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmylemon Posted August 18, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2023 Thanks Adam. I added a 1k external resistor already but its persisted. Been an issue for a while now, see below thread, same issue still. Ill back the filtering down and take if for another run and see what it does. If that doesn't solve it, should I just look at doing a 12 tooth instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted August 19, 2023 Report Share Posted August 19, 2023 What is the ignition system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmylemon Posted August 19, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2023 Genuine Hitachi R35 gtr coils with bpr7es plugs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmylemon Posted August 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2023 New log file after after changing trigger 1 filtering to level 1. Log 2023-08-20 10;27;59 am.llg Very keen to get this sorted now so ill try anything. Can you tell me if you are still seeing misfires Adam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmylemon Posted August 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2023 Would someone be able to please let me know how I can see potential trigger faults using the log file myself? I just don't know where to go/what to do in pc link to for it to show that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted August 21, 2023 Report Share Posted August 21, 2023 They are pretty easy to spot in the log, you will see a big spike to high or low RPM and a step in trigger 1 error counter at the same time. I just noticed it appears to happen very close to the limiter and you have quite aggressive RPM limit settings, so it might be the harsh change in crank acceleration or a vibration from the limiter that is causing it. It is possible under hard acceleration you may not think you are reaching the limit due to tacho delay or damping. Can you try it with the limiter settings changed to below as a test: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmylemon Posted August 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2023 Will make those changes and re-test, thank you for the screenshots and information Adam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmylemon Posted August 23, 2023 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2023 Should I be using any specific PIN on the ECU for ground drain for the shielding on these sensors, or will any ECU ground suffice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted August 23, 2023 Report Share Posted August 23, 2023 Any ground is fine for the shield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmylemon Posted December 10, 2023 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2023 Hi Adam, See below log of a run after those changes. Can you see any improvement? aferlimiterchanges.llg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmylemon Posted December 11, 2023 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2023 Great, still full of trigger errors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted December 11, 2023 Report Share Posted December 11, 2023 Yeah I thought that was a long shot but worth ruling out. Can you try the trig 1 filtering back at level 1. Where did the trigger wheel kit come from, or is it DIY? Can you attach a couple of pics of the trigger set up so I can see the tooth design and sensor bracket etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmylemon Posted December 12, 2023 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2023 Hi Adam, See attached. Do I just go the 12 tooth profile instead? This has been plaguing me now for the best part of 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyJ Posted December 12, 2023 Report Share Posted December 12, 2023 tooth count shouldnt matter , i've seen those cherry sensors fail , all of those that failed had exterior damage too so no manufacturer to blaim how much is the sensor gap ? al little tighter as per manual never hurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused Posted December 12, 2023 Report Share Posted December 12, 2023 Try rotating the sensor 90 degrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmylemon Posted December 13, 2023 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2023 Not sure on the air gap Kenny, I know when it was in with the tuner they mucked around with this a fair bit and it didn't help. I'll try rotate it 90 and see what happens, can't hurt for literally 30 sec work. Interesting video but, had no idea they looked like that inside, thought the entire base was the sensor. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted December 13, 2023 Report Share Posted December 13, 2023 Yeah I would say the guy in the video has no idea what he is talking about, the "strip" he is showing inside is just the PCB that has all the processing electronics on it, the actual hall effect element (and sometimes the separate magnet that goes behind it) is a flat disc type component, mounted 90degs to the PCB and fitted right in the end face of the body. There are in fact some hall effect sensors where orientation is important but these will always have a flat or groove machined down the side to show the orientation. The common red GS100502 certainly doesnt have a directional preference. FYI, this is what the commonly used gear tooth sensor elements look like, 8mm dia, 4mm thick as this one has the magnet built in. Certainly not a "strip". I do agree it is worth trying different air gaps though, with these sharp teeth it will be more sensitive to air gap than a more typical tooth shape. The thread pitch is 1mm so try it say half turn increments each way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmylemon Posted December 15, 2023 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2023 Hey Adam, Appreciate that info again. We've mucked around with air gaps extensively. I'm just going to go back to a 12-1 for now and just see if it sorts my problem.. I have access to a balancer to try it so why not. Are you able to give me some instructions on how to change what I have to 12-1? Like do I just need to change the trigger type in the menu and that's it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koracing Posted December 16, 2023 Report Share Posted December 16, 2023 Yeah you will change the trigger in the ecu as follows: Triggers -> Trigger Setup -> multi-tooth/missing Trigger 1 -> Trigger 1 -> Multi-tooth position -> Crank; Tooth Count -> 12; Missing teeth -> 1 Then re-verify your sync position/trigger offset of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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