Timboj Posted January 23, 2022 Report Share Posted January 23, 2022 Hi team, I've just installed some pretty aggressive cams (JWT C2/C8) and return fuel system in my Z in preparation for a supercharger. This is on back order and won't arrive for some time so I was hoping to use the time to learn how to tune while I'm still NA, in the hope that I can debug/fine tune myself in future. I've purchase a few HP Academy courses to help me through the process. I'm still using the stock injectors (for now) and I've also installed a Haltech WB2. I'm only using an analogue gauge on the regulator for now (slightly obscured by plenum) but I'm idling around 43-45 PSI. I've spent the last couple of days smoothing out my idle. It's far from perfect, but it at least resembles an idle now. I just took the car out for its maiden voyage around the house for about 50m in total. Not surprisingly, any throttle under load is flat-spotting. I'll take any advice, but I'm hoping you can point out any red flags guidance on where I should focus my time to stabilise the tune. I've attached my current map and log on my short drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted January 23, 2022 Report Share Posted January 23, 2022 Start with the changes in orange below. Also turn off the IAT fuel correction since you have the charge temp approximation enabled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timboj Posted January 23, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2022 Thanks Adam. Much appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timboj Posted January 26, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2022 Hi Adam, The changes appeared to make some subtle improvement. I've also since reset/smoothed out the e-throttle target position, tweaked and smoothed the fuel map and applied a ~15degree setting to ignition timing across most of the map. I've also reconfirmed crank timing @ 2000RPM (it was perfect from the Link base map) and tweaked the fuel regulator a touch. I've taken the car for a longer drive to put some load on it and while better, it's still quite rough particularly as the revs rise. I haven't been game to take it much over 2000 yet while driving. Any advice is appreciated, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted January 26, 2022 Report Share Posted January 26, 2022 Looks like it just needs more fuel, your lambda is 1.2 by 1800RPM and getting leaner. Bump your master fuel number up until the lambda is somewhere closer to target when driving, dont worry if it gets too rich at idle, you can adjust the idle area in the fuel table later once you have got the master in the ballpark so that general driving is closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timboj Posted January 26, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2022 Thanks Adam. Good, that's what I thought I was seeing. I'll keep at it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timboj Posted February 6, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 Hi team, I've had a chance to play around with the fuel maps and the drive is slowly improving. I've still only taken engine speed up to mid-2000s, and while I've still got plenty of cells to address where I'm leaning out, I'm more concerned about the knock being reported. It's an NA engine, using fairly conservative (relative to the base map at least) ignition timing, running 98 fuel and only revving to mid-2000s; is that even possible to induce knocking?! Also, my reading for Flywheel supply (V) is always marked in red. Is there any issue with my signal or is the threshold not set correctly (I haven't changed it). And finally I'm reporting a fault code 'Aux 9/10 Supply Error - E-throttle'. Any idea what could be causing that? Thanks! Log - https://drive.google.com/file/d/10Zpg667i9U6womR5GGLdugmi_ix9aL70/view?usp=sharing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timboj Posted February 6, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 I should add I just noticed a tonne of VVT errors - Extra pulses on bank 1 and missing pulses on bank 2?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted February 6, 2022 Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 Your VVT errors are because you havent done the VVT calibration. With the engine warmed up and running above the VVT lockout RPM, go to >VVT Control>VVT Setup>Cam angle test and set it to calibrate, it will take a couple of seconds then should set itself back to off. VVT should then work. 13 hours ago, Timboj said: I'm more concerned about the knock being reported. It's an NA engine, using fairly conservative (relative to the base map at least) ignition timing, running 98 fuel and only revving to mid-2000s; is that even possible to induce knocking?! Who set up and tuned the knock control? How did they do this when the car hasnt even been tuned? Knock should be turned off - or at least the retard limit set to zero while tuning. 13 hours ago, Timboj said: Also, my reading for Flywheel supply (V) is always marked in red. Is there any issue with my signal or is the threshold not set correctly (I haven't changed it). I think it is just the parameter warning set wrong. If flywheel voltage is somewhere close to battery voltage it is ok. 13 hours ago, Timboj said: And finally I'm reporting a fault code 'Aux 9/10 Supply Error - E-throttle'. Any idea what could be causing that? The voltage looks ok in the log. Have you actually cleared the fault codes? Does it come back after you clear it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timboj Posted February 6, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2022 Thanks for the responses, Adam. Helpful as always. Good to know about the VVT calibration. It's not covered in the setup manual. The knock control is just on standard base map settings. I hadn't realised they should be turned off while tuning (newb) Flywheel voltage- great, I'll adjust the threshold Aux 9/10 voltage - It appeared after previous clears, but I'll try again and see what happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timboj Posted February 13, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2022 More progress and the car is generally driving pretty nicely now (though I'm sure with plenty of power on the table). My fuel table was working pretty well (at least up to low 4000s) so I switch on accel enrich and overrun fuel cut (default settings on both) to see how that would affect things. The main thing to point out on this run/log is that there were multiple occasions where the lambda sensors spiked over 9 and as high as 10?! Can you tell what's going on there? I didn't notice any significant upset in how the car was driving. Given the two sensors are sending similar readings it seems unlikely it's a sensor issue. Beyond that, I'm typically finding my idle is undulating (12:05 on is a good example), even though my idle operating temp rpm is targeting 900+. Any suggestions on the best way to solve? Finally, though not a huge issue, could you tell me where to adjust the flywheel voltage alert threshold? Thanks https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rwHyWNvcT0kUsJ5yM5Cnj0KnaNnAMMgW/view?usp=sharing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted February 13, 2022 Report Share Posted February 13, 2022 6 hours ago, Timboj said: The main thing to point out on this run/log is that there were multiple occasions where the lambda sensors spiked over 9 and as high as 10?! Can you tell what's going on there? I didn't notice any significant upset in how the car was driving. Given the two sensors are sending similar readings it seems unlikely it's a sensor issue. Overrun fuel cut. 6 hours ago, Timboj said: Beyond that, I'm typically finding my idle is undulating (12:05 on is a good example), even though my idle operating temp rpm is targeting 900+. Any suggestions on the best way to solve? I dont really see an obvious cause of the idle oscillation but you have quite a few odd idle settings, no idle ign etc. So in the map below I have made quite a few changes to the idle control. It may not work well yet as I have changed lots of things which will effect each other. Give us a new log from cold start and some driving with this map and I will suggest some further tweaks based on what we see with that. 6 hours ago, Timboj said: Finally, though not a huge issue, could you tell me where to adjust the flywheel voltage alert threshold? Clarify what the problem is - are you getting a fault code or something? Idle test.pclx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timboj Posted February 13, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2022 Legend, thanks. I'll turn off overrun, and follow up re the idle. The flywheel voltage issue was brought up earlier- it's just showing in red as if it's an issue. I thought there might be somewhere to adjust a threshold setting to 'switch it off'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted February 13, 2022 Report Share Posted February 13, 2022 12 hours ago, Timboj said: The flywheel voltage issue was brought up earlier- it's just showing in red as if it's an issue. I thought there might be somewhere to adjust a threshold setting to 'switch it off'. soft warning is orange, hard warning is red Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timboj Posted February 13, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2022 Thanks Vaughan. Edit- Had to do a double take. Hadn't realised there were more settings accessible under 'Parameters'! Vaughan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timboj Posted February 25, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2022 I've had a professional tune now and running great so I'm going to take some time to sit down and compare the maps. A couple of quirks though. Even before the tune, I've found that occasionally if I switch the car off, the radiator fans will stay on. To switch them off, I have to give it a moment (I expect to cool down a little) and then only need to turn the ignition switch to accessories, for them to switch off again. Assume this is a setting/threshold I can adjust? Lastly, and this might be one my tuner has to solve, but post-tune when slowing down in gear, the transition on the drivetrain from engine power to rear axle momentum is causing some pretty serious bucking. It means I have to get on the clutch much sooner when slowing down. Is that too much or too little torque being created to transition (I can't conceptualise it)? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted March 6, 2022 Report Share Posted March 6, 2022 On 2/26/2022 at 11:48 AM, Timboj said: A couple of quirks though. Even before the tune, I've found that occasionally if I switch the car off, the radiator fans will stay on. To switch them off, I have to give it a moment (I expect to cool down a little) and then only need to turn the ignition switch to accessories, for them to switch off again. The Radiator Fans are controlled over CAN and so it is quite possible that if the fan is on when the ECU is switched off it just keeps running. This can be tested by forcing the fans on with an artificially low on temperature and then repeating with the fans forced off with an artificially high on temperature. If this is the case I could probably add some code into the 350Z CAN mode to make it switch off the fans if it detects that the key is being turned off. On 2/26/2022 at 11:48 AM, Timboj said: Lastly, and this might be one my tuner has to solve, but post-tune when slowing down in gear, the transition on the drivetrain from engine power to rear axle momentum is causing some pretty serious bucking. It means I have to get on the clutch much sooner when slowing down. Is that too much or too little torque being created to transition (I can't conceptualise it)? What's your overrun fuel cut setup like? is it on the initial release of throttle or is it after you've been in overrun for a little while? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timboj Posted March 7, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2022 Thanks Vaughan. What you've described appears to be exactly what's happening. Just today I was in a hurry only to come back to my car 30 mins later with my fans still running. Really appreciate a solution on that one, thanks. My tuner has given me something to try out so I'll give that a shot and confirm the setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted March 7, 2022 Report Share Posted March 7, 2022 Setting RPM Zero Timeout to 0 might do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timboj Posted March 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 On 3/7/2022 at 3:52 PM, Timboj said: Thanks Vaughan. What you've described appears to be exactly what's happening. Just today I was in a hurry only to come back to my car 30 mins later with my fans still running. Really appreciate a solution on that one, thanks. My tuner has given me something to try out so I'll give that a shot and confirm the setting. Sorry, to be clearer, my comment that my tuner had given me something to try was around the overrun fuel cutout. I'll respond when I get a chance to try both these fixes. Cheers Vaughan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timboj Posted March 25, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2022 @Vaughan I've had a chance to try lowering the timeout to 0, but that doesn't work unfortunately. It seems that turning the keys all the way off at 'normal' pace (I don't think I'm close to breaking any records) doesn't give the ECU enough time to cut the fan. If I do it quite slowly that seems to work. It seems the circuit appreciates a moment in acc to turn the fans off. Obviously this wasn't an issue on the stock ECU. Any chance this could be addressed in firmware? Haven't had a chance to spend much time on the overrun fuel cutout yet, although I've reduced the lower limit. I'll circle back this weekend. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timboj Posted March 28, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2022 Here's the overrun settings: My tuner had suggested dropping the RPM setting to 1300 from 1600 @ 80 degrees and 1500 @ 90degrees, which did seem to help some but it's still not quite right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamw Posted March 29, 2022 Report Share Posted March 29, 2022 Try something more like below. Usually you want a lot of retard so that restoration of full torque from zero torque is more gradual. Deactivation RPM I usually find more like 1500RPM works ok from me but I dont normally need to experiment with that too much. Also, make sure the VVT isnt activating/deactivating right on the same RPM as that will make a big jump in torque too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timboj Posted March 30, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2022 Thanks. I'll give that a shot. In the meantime, to save me opening it up, can you confirm if the Expansion Connector 1 is a standard 7-pin JST connection? And what gauge/rating of wire would you recommend for running a sensor (or potentially more than one) off the 5V? Cheers guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted March 30, 2022 Report Share Posted March 30, 2022 On 3/25/2022 at 2:54 PM, Timboj said: I've had a chance to try lowering the timeout to 0, but that doesn't work unfortunately. It seems that turning the keys all the way off at 'normal' pace (I don't think I'm close to breaking any records) doesn't give the ECU enough time to cut the fan. If I do it quite slowly that seems to work. It seems the circuit appreciates a moment in acc to turn the fans off. Obviously this wasn't an issue on the stock ECU. Any chance this could be addressed in firmware? Haven't had a chance to spend much time on the overrun fuel cutout yet, although I've reduced the lower limit. I'll circle back this weekend. Cheers I've added some code to force the fans and ac clutch off when ignition switch is turned off and that will be in the next release. In the meantime could you please try setting your Auxiliary Outputs -> ECU Hold Power -> Keep Alive time to say 5s (with your RPM Zero Timeout set to 0 still). Thanks Timboj 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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