E- thottle DC issues/ lack of idle control

[Ryan Heagney]

hey

post firmware upgrade seem to have an issue with the e throttle, also seem to be having a dc output issue on one of the AUX outputs 

running a bosch 82mm throttle body 

MIGHT not even be related to the firmware update but was all working OK before.

car will start and run OK cold then after a while idling OK it will start to hunt, then eventauly when you start it will stall itself 

 

quite keen for any one to have a look over the logs or setup and let me know if they can spot anything, driving the car everyhting is OK just seems to be idle related 

 

AE86R 013 idle issues try new feed foward table traction test.pclx

[Vaughan]

Your log doesn't seem to show any issues but you also aren't using the accelerator pedal at all in your log based on the APS pin voltages.

You do however have some fault codes in the ECU from prior to the log which include one for An Volt 6 (TPS Main) being below 0.05v and one for TPS Sub being in fault.

[Ryan Heagney]

hey

yes we were fidling quite  abit so had a few faults there it doenst log any faults idling then even when on track but still the DC for the e throttle will randomly become erratic at idle attached a better log 

engine stall after stable idle.llgx

[Vaughan]

It's your idle position that is moving around that is causing the E-Throttle to move at idle, @Adamw might be able to advise some setting improvements.

[Ryan Heagney]

Yeah i just can’t seem to pinpoint what’s telling it to move, I thought it was the feed foward table but that hasn’t seemed to have changed the issue. 
I did change back to open loop idle control but it would still do it in open loop it would seem to chase around 4% tps value when coming back from a throttle blip and then hit target of 1.5 or so then suddenly go to like .9 and shut the engine down 

I was idling all ok with open loop and idle ignition on before I did the firmware update - but we did also have an alternator fail morning after firmware update as well 

[Ryan Heagney]

hey.

 

defiently related to the closed loop idle control

if i turn the integral to zero it idles fine, if i turn it back to open loop it idles fine, if i run any more than 0.02 integral idle is eratic and slightly better at 0.01 then perfect at 0 or open loop, any ideas what setting i may have wrong for this to happen?

 

thanks! 

intergral 0.01 to 0.03 then 0.llgx

[dx4picco]

you need to find the right balance between idle ignition P gain and throttle I gain.

I had to reduce it alot aswell like you just said

[Adamw]

I've seen this before with the bosch throttles, im not sure if it is a "stiction" issue or damage to the gears or something.  I have an idea that adding some deadband into the throttle control loop might help but I just haven't had a car that exhibits the problem to experiment with. 

You can see the problem in the pic below, just to the left of where my yellow cursor is the throttle position was sitting bang on target and the throttle motor needed -20%DC to hold it there, the idle control then reduces the target position by 0.1% since the idle speed was a little above target, so the ecu starts winding in more motor DC trying to get the throttle to move, but it seems to be "stuck", It finally does move when DC gets down to -40% - but it is very odd the ecu had to double the motor torque to get it to move just 0.1%!  The target then reduces another 0.1%, this time the DC gets down to -45% DC, then the throttle suddenly "breaks free" and snaps closed way more than intended.  

 

[Ryan Heagney]

Interesting I think your right onto it there Adam, it would often idle find if you gently bring the blade closed where as if you blip the throttle quickly so the blade closes fast it seems to do it worse. 
It’s a near new throttle.

 

some kind of deadband would possibly work but it’s also interesting it didn’t do it when the throttle was brand new (maybe 5-8 hours old now) and also didn’t before the firmware / alternator change so possibly something did get damaged in the throttle or something is a little more sensitive in the idle loop? 

 

will just run this one in open loop and use idle ignition control instead 

 

thanks for your help 

[cws_nz]

which way is the throttle mounted?, have seen issues with bosch throttles doing odd things and binding when in particular mounting configurations 

this is from the bosh manual 

[Kostasdh]

I have a similar issue with the idle on my WRX107X after updating the firmware. When I updated the firmware the car would had trouble to start and i had to add a lot of pre crank prime and crank enr to make it start to the point that I would smell fuel.

I decided then to open a new WRX107X sample map and transfer all my setting from the old map. The result was that I fixed the starting issue in fact it got better than before but the downside it is that it does not activate idle. I'm attaching the relevant files and short log.

 

thank you.

IEE1196 ethanol v0.5.0 New Firm.pclx IEE1196 ethanol v0.4.8 old firm.pclx PC Datalog - 2023-09-27 11;53;49 am.llgx

[Adamw]

1. Your idle base position is about 1% too far open, subtract 1% from the whole table will likely solve the rev hang.  
2. Your idle actuator integral gain is way too high for E-throttle, you have 0.2 in the old map and 0.5 in the new, normal is around 0.05. 
3. Your bank 2 intake cam isn't working and is counting up errors for the first few minutes, keep an eye on that especially after start up and if you see it again then please do a trigger scope.  Whatever is causing the VVT error could also cause a mis-sync which might explain the difficult starting.  

[Kostasdh]

12 hours ago, Adamw said:

1. Your idle base position is about 1% too far open, subtract 1% from the whole table will likely solve the rev hang.  
2. Your idle actuator integral gain is way too high for E-throttle, you have 0.2 in the old map and 0.5 in the new, normal is around 0.05. 
3. Your bank 2 intake cam isn't working and is counting up errors for the first few minutes, keep an eye on that especially after start up and if you see it again then please do a trigger scope.  Whatever is causing the VVT error could also cause a mis-sync which might explain the difficult starting.  

I did at that time a vvt calibration also but the problem with idle persists after changing the idle base values.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/19Pv8worB7jHXsjSb9e98h0l3yHjv_ySB?usp=sharing

 

logs and maps

[Adamw]

Attach a new log showing the idle problem and attach a copy of the revised tune.  

The VVT issue may or may not be calibration, that's why I asked for a trigger scope when the fault is occurring to see if that gives any clues.  

[Kostasdh]

IEE1196 ethanol v0.5.3 New Firm.pclx PC Datalog - 2023-09-28 12;29;42 pm 0.05 new firm integral gain.llgx

3 hours ago, Adamw said:

Attach a new log showing the idle problem and attach a copy of the revised tune.  

The VVT issue may or may not be calibration, that's why I asked for a trigger scope when the fault is occurring to see if that gives any clues.  

I'm attaching logs and files in google drive https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/19Pv8worB7jHXsjSb9e98h0l3yHjv_ySB?usp=sharing

 

You can also see that I change the idle rpm target in purpose and the ecu does what I tell it to do. On the other hand when loading the new firm file the idle goes nuts and the TP main does not go below 7%

[Kostasdh]

I managed to solve it by opening a new sample v11 file and transferring everything to that clean file. 
 

It appears that my problems went away. 
 

thank you for your time ! 

[Adamw]

You have the throttle disabled in your "new firmware" map.  It wasn't in the previous "new firmware" map so that must have been something you changed since.