Dave Kriedeman

Hi Rune, if you get it to fire up, can you keep the engine running if you put your foot on the throttle pedal or set the DBW Target table to a higher value so the throttle blade opens up more. If you rev the engine when it does run, does it cut out straight away or does it backfire through the intake or any other symptoms you can give. If you can get it to run again, while it is running hit the F2 key and save as RUNE RUNNING FILE. Make sure the engine is running when you save the file, this way I can analyse the runtime data to see if I can find anything. In the file I sent you I turned off closed loop lambda control, changed your idle ignition table setup etc. I haven't made any changes to any fuel settings, other than changing your warm up enrichment table, the Y axis was setup as Foot Pedal % vs RPM. See if you can capture that data and post the PCL file up so I can have a look. Can you also download the latest software and upgrade your firmware in your ECU, you are currently running 4.9.1 very old. May I ask why you ran wasted spark on this engine and not sequential, what coils are you using, smart or dumb. Regards Dave.

Hi Dana, No worries, we are all the same. You never stop learning when it comes to this type of thing. As for asking questions, that is a very important step in learning. Sometimes deciphering what someone else has written can be tricky to understand, the joys of the internet and time zone differences from country to country etc , etc Your cat comment I am sure is known world wide and always taken as a joke. All the best. Regards Dave.

Hi, I understand that you are trying to replicate closely the linear curve of the factory sensor with the correct scale offset for the larger diameter MAF. Unfortunately you are restricted to 16 sites in CAL 1,2 and 3. Amongst that using CAL1,2 or 3 you must nominate a start value and a table increment amount. This is somewhat of a limitation to try and achieve your goal. This is why I have setup CAL 4 in my supplied example. You have a minimum and maximum volt scale and then in respect to the voltage scale we are able to nominate given (known) output for value A and B. Output scale is grams/sec . Input value A = 0.94 volts = 1.3 grams/sec Input value B = 4.61 volts = 425.8 grams/sec. Therefore the ECU generates a linear curve itself derived from the known data., how accurately this replicates the factory curve I have no idea. """WHEN I REFER TO A LINEAR CURVE IT WILL REALLY BE A LINEAR LINE"""" Using CAL 1,2 or 3 limits you to 16 sites to make up a replication of your desired curve. As you notice using CAL 1,2 or 3 limits you to given data entry points, the ECU must then try to interpolate between these given values. Using CAL 4 as I have enables the ability for the software to create many more points, considering it would change the output grams/sec in relation to every 0.00001volt or whatever the resolution of these CALS allow. This allows for more ECU generated interpolation between the given points, compared to CAL 1, 2 or 3. I am no engineer so my example of 0.00001 volts is purely that, an example. Having a true known value for 0 volts and 5 volts for the MAF would give an even more accurate curve. Then when setting up your main fuel table as I have using CAL 4 grams/sec on the Y AXIS you have 20 load points to enter your desired grams/sec you wish to use. However as I stated earlier the use of MAF sensors is not that common in practice by myself and many others. Speed density (MAP) sensed inputs have greater potential and are far easier to setup and tune with. Some may argue this point and that is fair as MAF sensors do have a place in this area however in my experience and many others the use of MAF and standalone ECU's no mater how good, normally lead to less than desirable end results. Considering if you removed the MAF, you wouldn't have that restriction to start with. Will the 80 mm MAF definitely allow you enough resolution for further mods or higher boost levels without bottoming out(running out of range). Creating flow vs voltage curves accurately is also a limitation of using MAF. I am just letting you know, you may go through the trials and tribulations of this and end up going to a MAP SENSOR at the end anyway. I hope this has explained it all a little better for you. Regards Dave.

Hi Rune, how much E85 / Flex fuel are you running at present. Load the modified PCL file I have attached into your ecu. Start the engine and let me know the outcome. Take note of the AFR while warming up. You may have to modify the warm up enrichment table values I have created for you. I have also changed how your idle ignition timing activated and the table itself. Another note, your fuel master is set to 8. However your fuel main table numbers are very low all in the 20's basically. You need to set the table up so that in boost your main fuel table values are above 50, aim for around 60 -70 at least. This PCL file is purely a test file to see if we can get your engine running for you with the changes you have made. Recheck your ignition timing is correct. Calibrate the MAP sensor and check that you are getting full throttle with your DBW setup. Regards Dave. RUNE E85 START UP TUNE ViPEC FORUM.pcl

Hi Rune, looks like i a made a good guess at the suspected changes. But I didn't expect all of those, airflow changes , fuel type, injectors. OK, I will have a look at your PCL and we will go from there. Regards Dave.

Hi Thom, Yes I remember giving you some help back in the early days of your boost control issues and discussing WG spring pressures with you. Using the trim tables will take some finesse to achieve the desired outcome you are after. However with good data logging parameters should be easily overcome. You could also use a combination of advanced open loop control to do some testing in conjunction with full closed loop control. Leave closed loop control selected and set proportional , integral and derivative set to 0 to go into advanced open loop mode. However at the end of the day I personally would leave it set up in full closed loop control and adjust the gear trim tables and then adjust the PID values if required. Using the Gear Based Duty Cycle Table to make the transitions smoother. Nothing like a challenge to test the brain out anyway. Give it a go and have some fun, post back your results. Would be good to hear your findings. Regards Dave.

Hi Thom, what you are saying is correct. I am however trying to keep the reply to the O/P simplified for now. Most people setup their boost target tables with TPS,MAP or MGP as their Y axis. I assume (which I shouldn't) that the O/P has done the same. In closed loop the Y axis should be setup as Target Boost. He states that he has already set up his Closed Loop Boost Control and simply wants to know what is required to setup gear input for the ability to reduce boost in 1st and 2nd gears. Changing his Boost Target tables etc to GEAR Y AXIS etc, may or may not be an issue for him. However I believe if it is already setup that the trim tables are the easiest option for him. Sorry, I should have explained my reply a bit better as above, to save any confusion. Regards Dave.

Hi Rune, can you post your PCL file so I can have a look at it for you, please. So basically, all you have done is changed your fuel injectors, no other mechanical changes or fuel type changes etc. Are the TPS and MAP sensors calibrated. No error codes. Regards Dave.

Hi, in regards to if this is linear, well it is linear to the values you have supplied me with. If you look at my cal 4 I have used your lowest voltage value for input A and used your highest value for input B. I do not know the true full voltage scaling etc of your MAF, so I have set this example up with the information you have supplied. The output values in grams/sec are calculated values derived from your supplied pounds/min values converted to grams/sec. These values are rounded to 1 decimal place only, by the software. So the software knows that voltage input A = 0.94 v = 1.3 grams/sec and voltage input B = 4.61 v = 425.8 grams/sec. The end result output of grams /sec will be derived from any given input voltage between input value A and B. Exactly the same as your wideband setup, only your input A value would normally be 0v and your input B value would normally be 5.00 v WIDEBAND EXAMPLE: 0v = 10.0:1 5v = 30.0:1 I have no 0 volt or 5 volt reference supplied by you, hence for the input A and B values being what they are. If you look at the Y AXIS of the Main Fuel Table you will notice it is set as AV1 which is grams/sec and these are values derived from my CAL 4. Regards Dave.

Hi Thom, using Closed Loop Boost control via PID tuning is to achieve a desired boost pressure repeatedly and reliably regardless to an extent, of the operating conditions. The end result is a predefined value you setup in the software, so after setting up your desired boost target eg: 250 Kpa and set up your PID control to achieve this pressure, quickly, precisely, smoothly as possible, the end result will always be the same 250 Kpa. So for example in first and second gear you have massive wheel spin you can reduce the value in the Gear Target Trim table to lower the boost in these gears to reduce wheel spin. Used in conjunction with the Gear Based duty cycle trim table to help smooth or stabilise the process. PID control is still used in the base process, however there is no PID control for each gear as such, therefore offset tables must be used to achieve a desired result for each gear. Regards Dave.

Hi Rune, if an input sensor wire is damaged it should show a fault, as far as an open circuit or short to ground etc is concerned. If the engine runs ok for 5 minutes and then runs bad, what exactly are the symptoms. Does it stall, if so, does it restart straight away, etc, etc, Does it start and run fine until it warms up. What does your AFR read when it plays up. Have you checked your sparkplugs to see if they are black and sooty or wet with fuel. What did you set your fuel master to. Regards Dave.

Hi Cake, you can view the closed loop status 2 ways. 1 is to hit F12 key and this will open the Runtimes value list. Click on the Fuel Tab and in the bottom right corner will be closed loop info. If you are talking about setting up a guage type arrangement to view the status of closed loop on or off or % applied for closed loop mode, that is easy also. Right click on the page and select NEW VIEW, DIGITAL GUAGE, Go to the fuel tab on the left and select Lambda Fuel Correction % and also Lambda Status 1, you can select them together or as individual gauges. Don't forget to save your layout as ???????? Hope this is what you wanted . Regards Dave.

Hi Marty, yes you can interface a V88 to a WIDEBAND via Can bus. I have never seen a WIDEBAND with RS232 data comms, that's not to say they don't exist. Regards Dave.

Hi, here is a screen shot of the MAF setup running on my ENGINESIM. Everything seems to run fine. The low end resolution scaling numbers I have used on the FUEL TABLE are very sensitive. Take note I am using an i88 for the test ECU here. Regards Dave.

Hi, I have not received confirmation from the engineers as yet as they are very busy. I have run this setup on my ENGINESIM and it works. I used your values you supplied on your spread sheet. I converted your LBS/MIN to GMS/SEC to create the Calibrations. 1 LB/MIN = 7.55987283 GMS/SEC. I set up an AN VOLT I/P as a G/P INPUT, I then used CAL TABLE 4 as this gives you a better set up, simple volt = grams/sec. I then rescaled your list of LBS/MIN to GMS / SEC. I setup the FUEL MAIN TABLE with AN VOLT 2 as the Y AXIS and set as GRAMS/SEC. I then chose some progressive grams/sec values and created a basic fuel table. With 20 Y axis GRAMS/SEC load sites available it is up to you what you wish to use. Remembering the ECU will interpolate between these sites. Personally I would delete the MAF and use a MAP sensor and tune using MGP or MAP, However this is your call. I have attached an example of how I have set it up. Unfortunately the axis is only able to be setup as a single decimal place, so the software rounds off values to the closest single decimal place. I hope this helps you out. Regards Dave.

Hi, Do you have a spare digital input available. If so set that digital input function up as GEAR CUT. Pull up resistor OFF On Level =  High Active Edge = Rising. Go down to MOTORSPORTS TAB and open the GEAR CUT CONTROL TAB. The rest of your setup is done here and the GEAR CUT EDIT TABLE. Regards Dave.

Hi, I have submitted my solution and I am just waiting confirmation from the engineers on my solution. Regards Dave.

Hi, you need to have a VSS digital input. EG: DI 1 setup as the source of the vehicle speed, EG: LHR WHEEL or just ground speed. Under Digital Inputs you will see a Gear Detection Tab. It is easier to use the ECU calculated option for the gear detection. You can select User Defined if you know the ratios etc. Once you have configured the gear ratio setup, you then use the Boost Gear Target Trim Table and the Boost Gear Wastegate Trim Table to add or subtract duty cycle from the boost table to reduce the boost in lower gears. Regards Dave.

Hi, OK, I am working on this now, I believe I have a solution. I will confirm with the ViPEC engineers before posting. Regards Dave.

Hi, I personally never use MAF, however if you can attach your PCL file so I can have a look and do some testing for you. Are you setting up the Custom cal input as a voltage or ohms. Is the output scaled as g/s. How much resolution are you after and what type of scaling. EG: 0 Volts = 0 gm/s 5 Volts = 1000 gm/s etc. Regards Dave.

Hi, are you using the default V7-9 MAF Calibration, or have you chosen a custom CAL TABLE and created your own Cal Table to suit. Are you intending on using a MAP sensor or just MAF,BAP and TPS. What are you using for the Y axis on your Main Fuel Table. Regards Dave.

Hi, it will add extra noise that you may need to filter out. Regards Dave.

Hi Ronni, the ignition source I am referring to can be the ignition outputs from the ecu to the ignition module or the coil trigger wires from the ignition module to the coils, or close to the coils themselves. Also if the wiring for the knock sensors runs near any large positive feed wires that will carry alternator charge current, charge wire from alternator to battery etc. Are your knock sensor cables shielded cable, only grounded at one end. Also you say you have made a new loom and added to 4x4. Recheck your knock sensor looms, but also you may have to reconfigure your filters etc. I am assuming by saying you have converted to 4x4 that you are using a GTR sump and front transaxle assembally. This will generate new noise and harmonics through the block and obviously into the knock sensors. Something to consider. Forgot to add, do you have a condenser (noise suppressor) on the alternator, from charge output to ground of the alternator. Also check you are not running parallel with your trigger wires (CAS). PWM outputs, injectors, idle solenoid, boost solenoids, etc, wiring loom repositioning near any frequency generating device can cause issues. Power and Earth for the amplifier can be shared from the ecu power supply if you wish or separate. Regards Dave.

Hi, make sure your knock sensor wiring is away from all ignition sources. How have you configured the Knock amplifier as far as your noise filters etc. Have you used this device previously without issue or have you just started to use the device. Regards Dave.

Hi all, in have attached an article from Injector Dynamics regarding injector pulse widths. http://injectordynamics.com/articles/low-pulse-tech/ Regards Dave.