honda eg b18 with honed development trigger kit

[ivanyuen02]

Hi , im trying to get my car running with link g4x ecu with cop kit and honed development trigger kit. 

i found cop kit wiring from old topic, but im not sure how to wire up for those oem honda sensors for the honed trigger kit, any wiring expert please help thankyou. 

 

 

[servicesoon]

Usually, trigger 1 input is the crank sensor and trigger 2 is the cam sensor input. You should use shielded wiring.

The shield, and the sensor ground need to be grounded to a pin on the link, not grounded to chassis.

[koracing]

It looks like what they are calling "Trigger" in their kit is the engine position aka Trig1 (8 tooth) and what they call home is their sync or Trig2 (1 tooth).  Power Ground and signal for hall effect sensors if your sensors are like what is shown in your pictures.  Shielded wiring is ideal, but hall effect tend to be pretty robust signals and you can likely get away without using shielded wire if you're reusing an OEM harness that doesn't have it.  A reluctor or 2 wire sensor should definitely use shielded wire with the shield only grouned at one end of the cable run.

[Adamw]

Attached a pic showing pin locations for the common honda distributor connectors.  

Connect home sensor signal to pin 6, trigger sensor signal to pin 5, both get 12V from pin 9, and sensor gnds can go to 2 & 4.

Having said that, Im not sure what the intent of this device is, it seems to have been designed without much knowledge of trigger systems.  The factory distributor has VR sensors and has 24T, so the stock distributor base would give significantly more accurate engine position - that is assuming they are coupled to the camshaft using a similar mechanism.  If it has some reduced backlash then it may be a little better.  8 cam teeth (effectively 16 crank teeth) also doesnt divide equally into 360degs so that typically introduces further error into engine position calculations - this is why nearly all trigger wheels are based on 12/24/36/60 teeth.    

[Hadzhonda]

Any update on this  just purchased the same kit.

[ls joker]

Glad this was bumped. Purchased the trigger kit aswell. Just need alittle help from g4x technical support on, if i can wire the power source direct to pin a25 on the ecu? Or if it needs to be on a switch power source? Switched power source is suppose to be 12v. And pin a25 would be 14v since the alternator isnt being controlled anymore. Would that mean the whole system would be at 14volts long as the alternator is functioning properlly correctly?

I made a separate sub harness for the trigger sensors that will be pinned in B-pins. 

[Adamw]

A25 is the main ECU supply, that is fine to use, or you can use the "pin9" +12V wire in the original distributor plug.  

[ls joker]

Thank you sir

[Grant_Honed]

Hi All, Grant from Honed here. 

Firstly, to customers, here are the PClink trigger set-up settings from our B18c2. 

As per the instructions, I'd recommend using a timing light and verifying the trigger offset on you specific engine. 

 

[Grant_Honed]

On 12/7/2023 at 6:29 AM, Adamw said:

Attached a pic showing pin locations for the common honda distributor connectors.  

Connect home sensor signal to pin 6, trigger sensor signal to pin 5, both get 12V from pin 9, and sensor gnds can go to 2 & 4.

Having said that, Im not sure what the intent of this device is, it seems to have been designed without much knowledge of trigger systems.  The factory distributor has VR sensors and has 24T, so the stock distributor base would give significantly more accurate engine position - that is assuming they are coupled to the camshaft using a similar mechanism.  If it has some reduced backlash then it may be a little better.  8 cam teeth (effectively 16 crank teeth) also doesnt divide equally into 360degs so that typically introduces further error into engine position calculations - this is why nearly all trigger wheels are based on 12/24/36/60 teeth.    

Adam, perhaps you had good intentions, but your commentary is quite derogatory and factually incorrect. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camshaft

The camshaft spins once every 720 degrees of crankshaft rotation, 720/8= 90 degrees even. 

Input frequency per crankshaft angle is only one aspect when considering the engine triggering system. As long as the input frequency is adequate and does not result in any detrimental effects, then it's fit for purpose. 

The Honda D and B series engines for which this device is designed don't have variable cam timing, during development we benchmarked our trigger kit's performance as a cam angle sensor against the AEM Engine Position Module (previous common unit fitted to Hondas, but no longer manufactured), which is an optical sensor unit with 24+1 (which is actually 48 on the cam) and the engine performance was the same and the noise in the rpm trace had the same amplitude. 

The intent of the device is to adapt modern OEM Honda hall effect sensors onto the older Honda engines. 

And in doing so, avoid the real-world issues currently associated with aftermarket trigger kits for these engines (as I see them). 

Such as:

- Exposed timing belts

- Adjustable sensors (which can be adjusted incorrectly or move/vibrate)

- Proprietary sensors

It is also convenient that we have been able to develop a very cost-effective product compared to alternatives. 

My goal is to help more Honda guys move away from their OEM ECUs, which are now approaching 30 years old and suffer from age-related issues as well as having very limited functionality compared to a modern aftermarket ECU like a Link. 

 

 

 

[Hadzhonda]

2 hours ago, Grant_Honed said:

Adam, perhaps you had good intentions, but your commentary is quite derogatory and factually incorrect. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camshaft

The camshaft spins once every 720 degrees of crankshaft rotation, 720/8= 90 degrees even. 

Input frequency per crankshaft angle is only one aspect when considering the engine triggering system. As long as the input frequency is adequate and does not result in any detrimental effects, then it's fit for purpose. 

The Honda D and B series engines for which this device is designed don't have variable cam timing, during development we benchmarked our trigger kit's performance as a cam angle sensor against the AEM Engine Position Module (previous common unit fitted to Hondas, but no longer manufactured), which is an optical sensor unit with 24+1 (which is actually 48 on the cam) and the engine performance was the same and the noise in the rpm trace had the same amplitude. 

The intent of the device is to adapt modern OEM Honda hall effect sensors onto the older Honda engines. 

And in doing so, avoid the real-world issues currently associated with aftermarket trigger kits for these engines (as I see them). 

Such as:

- Exposed timing belts

- Adjustable sensors (which can be adjusted incorrectly or move/vibrate)

- Proprietary sensors

It is also convenient that we have been able to develop a very cost-effective product compared to alternatives. 

My goal is to help more Honda guys move away from their OEM ECUs, which are now approaching 30 years old and suffer from age-related issues as well as having very limited functionality compared to a modern aftermarket ECU like a Link. 

 

 

 

Cheers for the reply, that's really helpful and I'm really happy with the product I've purchased.  It's really well put together, but tbh, i wouldn't expect anything less. All of your products have a cast iron reputation for R&D, and knew this is the same. I will keep everyone updated and if it helps when I've done I'll upload my cal file to help others, along with my wiring etc end details step by step. 

[ls joker]

Grants,

Thanks man. Good to see your involvement on here aswell. The quality on this product is so great. I havent been excited for a new part since changing to my gtw3476r turbo. My only recommendation would be to clock the home sensor mounting pad facing the opposite direction. Towards the firewall, instead of towards the radiator.

That being said install was pretty simple. Wiring was pretty simple aswell. I made a separate harness. Will have to get pics up.

 

[Hadzhonda]

28 minutes ago, ls joker said:

Grants,

Thanks man. Good to see your involvement on here aswell. The quality on this product is so great. I havent been excited for a new part since changing to my gtw3476r turbo. My only recommendation would be to clock the home sensor mounting pad facing the opposite direction. Towards the firewall, instead of towards the radiator.

That being said install was pretty simple. Wiring was pretty simple aswell. I made a separate harness. Will have to get pics up.

 

Ah great stuff. As much info on your wiring and setup the better. That might help me also. I've yet to make my loom up. 

 

I need to order wire, I've got all the plugs, terminals, coil packs and sensors etc managed to get coils to fit nice with this valve cover too. Just got a carbon hold down plate to make. 

[ls joker]

Will pm you

[Hadzhonda]

Made a cover this avy to hold coils in nicely

I presume I'm using a20 and a21, a31 and a32 as the coil drivers? 

 

Cheers all.  

[ls joker]

That is correct. Not sure if you need a resistors somewhere for the coils wiring

[Grant_Honed]

4 hours ago, ls joker said:

Grants,

Thanks man. Good to see your involvement on here aswell. The quality on this product is so great. I havent been excited for a new part since changing to my gtw3476r turbo. My only recommendation would be to clock the home sensor mounting pad facing the opposite direction. Towards the firewall, instead of towards the radiator.

That being said install was pretty simple. Wiring was pretty simple aswell. I made a separate harness. Will have to get pics up.

 

Fantastic, neat job on the harness work. 

I see what you mean with respect to clocking the Home sensor, and I'll take note of that. 

[SpAdam]

Hi guys. Long time listener, first time caller - on this forum at least. 
 

thought this would be a good thread to jump into since I see @Grant_Honed has visibility too. 
 

I’m working toward running an S2000x on my ‘00 “EK” w/ b-series. Ecu is acquired and I’m planning the details. 
 

Has anyone successfully used the oe Honda CKF with the G4X for crank position? I know, anecdotally, that other ecus don’t do so well with it. 
 

My preference would be to run with the crank position from the crank and use the Honed Home sensor kit at the cam. I can make it plug and play with my engine loom too. 
 

If not, I could do the full trigger kit and call it a day too. 

[Hadzhonda]

Great progress tonight. Coils are firing when i test. Hopefully get car fired up and timing offset dialled in at weekend. i will give an update. I'm on the 98+ ecu  but on an obd 93 car so had to mess about a bit but I think I'm there.  I can't get the car to scope the triggers as the ecu powers down which is random.n I'll look into that. Ran fine prior to cop setup. Laptop loses ecu connection just as I crank and want to capture. 

[ls joker]

On 3/16/2024 at 11:29 AM, SpAdam said:

Hi guys. Long time listener, first time caller - on this forum at least. 
 

thought this would be a good thread to jump into since I see @Grant_Honed has visibility too. 
 

I’m working toward running an S2000x on my ‘00 “EK” w/ b-series. Ecu is acquired and I’m planning the details. 
 

Has anyone successfully used the oe Honda CKF with the G4X for crank position? I know, anecdotally, that other ecus don’t do so well with it. 
 

My preference would be to run with the crank position from the crank and use the Honed Home sensor kit at the cam. I can make it plug and play with my engine loom too. 
 

If not, I could do the full trigger kit and call it a day too. 

 

On paper, i dont see why it wouldnt work. The ecu would be getting trigger1 inputs from the oem crank sensor(long as the function is actually connected on the ecu pinouts). Then trigger2 would be as simple as installing honeds cam sensor kit. I hope youre talking about their new cam only kit(shown below). Then just wiring up the 12v, signal ground, and signal to the ecu pinouts. 

https://honeddevelopments.com/product/cam-angle-sensor-basic/

All youd really be doing is changing how trigger2 is being inputted if im understanding you correctly. By removing thd distributor and installing the oem hall effect sensor kit. Youve been talking about it on honda tech for awhile.

[Hadzhonda]

So.....I cannot get my trigger offset setup lol.  Tried all sorts. Lots of coughs and pops but won't fire up lol. Trigger kit will only fit one way so that's okay,  also my damn ecu keeps powering off on laptop, as i crank, so that's not helping either. Can't get zla scope pattern from it. I'll keep trying. Tried lots of different offsets to get close with no results yet. I'll keep trying.  

[Laminar]

What's your battery voltage at the ECU while cranking? Any chance you have a poor battery connection and voltage is plummeting when the starter motor runs?

[Hadzhonda]

10 minutes ago, Laminar said:

What's your battery voltage at the ECU while cranking? Any chance you have a poor battery connection and voltage is plummeting when the starter motor runs?

I'm on a lithium battery, I will try swapping it out. Thanks for help. As soon as I crank it goes offline on laptop. I'll test at battery whilst cranking. 

[ls joker]

Make sure your grounds are clean and tight. Which im sure you know. If possible have a 40-50amp charger on the battery while trying to crank. Not sure if you can with those lithium batteries. Also do you have an ignition wire lead in between the coil and spark plugs?

 

Did your engine setup previous run with the g4x before swapping to the honed trigger kit?

[Hadzhonda]

29 minutes ago, ls joker said:

Make sure your grounds are clean and tight. Which im sure you know. If possible have a 40-50amp charger on the battery while trying to crank. Not sure if you can with those lithium batteries. Also do you have an ignition wire lead in between the coil and spark plugs?

 

Did your engine setup previous run with the g4x before swapping to the honed trigger kit?

All sorted guys cheers for help. It didn't like the lithium. Swapped to s lead acid, no drama. 236 degree trigger offset and she idles sweet as a nut. I can tidy it up now. Really happy.