Link ecu mx5

[Stranger24]

Guys 

 

i love link and I have it on my skyline and e36 . I bought an mx5 and want to also change it to link plug in

 

need some advice and whilst I understand this is a link forum, I hope it is ok to ask my question and mention other vendor. if not let me know and I will remove my post

 

basically I am  not great with wiring and hence avoided stand alone vs p&p

 

i hat my 20 years old wiring on skyline and e36 so for mazda I am thinking i go standalone but then pain of all wiring and maybe try creating it or pay someone …

 

at the end think it will not save me any cost . Not that cost matter significantly but it is a factor

 

i think p&p is lovely as everything is wired in and as name suggest it is just to put it in the car and have a base map to start with.

I have seen loads people looking at ecu master and i am not a mechanic rather hobbiest loving cars and learning efi and knowing link, I don’t want to learn ecu master or other brands

Also p&p seems to be top of the range in terms on input output etc 

is there any reason people go ecu master? 
 

basically i am 99% on p&p link mx5 nb but part of me want to hear re both standalone link and any benefit and also ecu master

 

thanks

[koracing]

My feeling is the Link is a bit more advanced in capability versus ECU master - but I will admit my knowledge of ECU master is limited to messing with a few of the EMU Classic ecus.  I haven't seen what their black version does differently.  Fuel pressure compensation in the fuel model on Link is one of my favorite things about Link.  Link  has a lifetime warranty on their ecus, factory direct support via this forum, live chat support chat on their site, and via email with Link tech support also aid in selling the Link products.

[Confused]

I've had the pleasure of helping a friend with his ECUMaster Classic ECU, and the one very immediate thing that sets it apart from Link is the quality of the software, and the Help.

The ECUMaster Classic software is, in my opinion clunky, unintuitive, and not user friendly at all.

And, the "Help" is practically non-existant.

 

Whilst Link's software does also have its quirks, it's substantially more streamlined and user friendly, and the in-application Help is the very best Help/Documentation I have EVER seen for any product in my 20+ years in the computer/software industry. It's not just a technical reference guide, it teaches you the theory behind the functions too - which, if you're a newbie, is exceptionally beneficial!

 

Whether their newer Black range software is less bad, I don't know, I've not spent the time to investigate this yet.

 

Before you consider Wire-In or Plug-In - have a GOOD long, hard think about all the things you might want the ECU to do - whilst the Plug-In Links are based upon the Xtreme model, each individual vehicle-specific model has varying numbers of inputs & outputs that are exposed to the user - and one of the reasons you pay different prices for each vehicle model based upon this.

Once I'd started to figure out all the cool stuff the Link ECU could do (E-Throttle, Cruise Control, Traction Control, Launch Control etc) I found myself very quickly running out of inputs & outputs, and had to modify my goals based upon what inputs & outputs I had available to me.

If I were picking an ECU again, I'd weigh this up in my choice of whether I have the "short term gain" of having something that plugged into my vehicle loom directly, or the "long term gain" of having the full range of I/O available to me.

This can be negated somewhat by adding I/O via CANBUS devices, such as the Razor - or almost any other manufacturer's PDM - as the Link CANBUS is, I believe, by far the most flexible of all aftermarket ECU manufacturers.

 

This support forum has also been an absolute gold-mine of information - it is now the only forum I still visit on a daily basis - all other forums have been "taken over" by social media, but this is still the best resource. Yes, there's Link related FB groups, but you can't search, you can't upload/share files easily, and there's years of history here, and such a wide variety of questions being asked almost daily.

 

Whilst the likes of Haltech provide phone support (as do Link!) they only really offer this as their only option - you can't ask for support on their own forum! Sometimes though you need feedback from your fellow owners too, and with forum posts you can go away, research, and come back with the next piece of the puzzle, which you lose if you rely only on phone support.

[Adamw]

What specific model MX5 are we talking about?

[Stranger24]

nb 2000 1.8 no vvt. 

 

I do agree link support and pretty much Adam replying to every question of mine is second to none.

 

I really want link and prob get it than try Ecu or ME442 or other brand. I was just curious. I know link works, support is there and to me I guess rethinking this, I am happy to pay £1.4k as it is now than 1.2k . That is almost twice the price of many mx5 ecus but you get what you pay for I guess.

 

 

[Adamw]

In that case I wouldnt hesitate going for the NB1 plug-in Vs a Link wire-in ecu, this particular plug-in is a fairly recent design so has nearly all available IO exposed.  After a quick glimpse, I think Ign 5-8 are the only outputs missing, but you do have all 8 inj drives, and 6 more aux outputs compared to an xtreme wire-in so it will have plenty for even a very serious race car.  

I have no recent experience with the ME442 so perhaps my comments arent relevant, but about 4 years ago I tuned a ME221 and a couple of "Nodiz" ign ecu's from the same company and based on those I wouldnt be rushing to try them again.  The nodiz just stopped working within about an hour of running, it took over a month for them to fix it, but it eventually came back and I got the tune finished. About 3 months later the car came back running like crap and when I connected to it I found the ign map and several other settings had all scrambled themselves, I loaded the old tune back in, it started and ran good until it warmed up and then decided to fry itself again.  The ME221 was slightly better but was very basic and the software was buggy as hell considering it had almost no features.  Would crash often so you lose anything that hadn't been saved or stored, wouldnt reconnect if ign was switched off and back on etc.    

The EMU black I have tuned a few, again a very basic ecu designed with low cost as the primary intent, it has very basic low-performance hardware but at least it seems relatively stable on the ones I have tuned. They have actually done quite well to get as much functionality from the tiny processor that they have, but you do really notice the limitations once you start working with it compared to what im used to.  Many tables have to share the same axes, interpolation between table cells is very low resolution, analog inputs are low resolution and slow sample rate, timing control is poor under transients, only 2 slow PWM outputs, 2 slow frequency inputs, no internal logging etc...  I have never looked closely at how well it takes care of important scheduling of things like cuts and recovery from cuts etc as they have only been used on very basic road cars but I suspect from the tiny 64pin 8bit xmega running it there will be significant compromises there too.  

 

[Stranger24]

bought mx5 link4 this morning , have 3 of them so part of link family I guess. I won't be tuning mx5 anytime soon but bought it . is base map any good?

 

I guess I need afr at minimum. what works well with link? I have aem on skyline and prosport on e36 .

[Confused]

Would fully recommend the Link CAN Lambda.

You don't get a screen with it, but you don't really need it once the ECU is set up to respond to the lambda readings it receives.

[castillaricardo]

The basemap should get the car running. I had to make the following changes on mine:

1. Set clutch input to DI 1, Pull-up On and active state Low

2. Change Driven Wheel Speed Source to GP Speed 1 to use Launch Control and Gear Shift Control

3. Set Tacho to Aux 2 (This is fixed in the G5 sample map)

Also make sure you're on the latest firmware and Alternator Control is On. The default PID settings have worked well for me. The only change I made there was a 3D table for the feed-forward values based on the cooling fans being on.

[koracing]

AEM X-Series wideband connected via CAN or Link CAN Lambda are the two widebands I typically use.  14point7 Spartan 3 via CAN also looks decent.

I also always recommend a fuel pressure sensor for the ecu fuel model to compensate for any fuel pressure fluctuations and/or possible future troubleshooting.

[curly]

Good choice on the Link, I've tuned a handful of MX5s and BMWs on Link PNP models, you have way less to worry about with Mazdas wiring than BMWs in terms of it's age. BMWs are much more complicated, run hotter, and usually have higher mileage compared to a equal year MX5, climate/rust conditions aside.

As others have said, the base maps are great, with only a few pull-up resistors to enable in the software. I do like putting ID1050x's in with their Link specific dead times, and switching to modeled fuel with (as koracing mentioned) an added fuel pressure sensor. NB fuel systems kinda suck, so it's great to monitor it and catch immediately when you run into it's limits while adding power.

[Stranger24]

Thanks guyS

 

what is diffrence between can lamda and just analog input lambda?

 

can uses digital processing and less prune to errors on normal analog lambda? I guess I could get can lambda and can gauge so can see multiple output/sensor

 

i was going to buy another aem analoug/ gauge style as on mx5 i am not pushing above 300 and i guess don’t want to learn can bus network( i know what it is) but learning curve …

is it hard to setup?

from I know lots of people do individual coil on plug for mazda. I need to check how my mazda is as of today( bought it and never checked under the bonnet!) i think it has one coil for two cylinders so 2x coil

 

does mx5 ecu allow doing individual coil plugs?

 

need to do more research here

 

On my e36 I am monitoring fuel pressure and adjusting dead time on that. I guess that is what you referring to?

 

 

re can lambda it can be link or any brand I guess right? Link can lambda currently out of my price range as also buying link knockblock. Is innovate any good?

 

https://www.demon-tweeks.com/innovate-motorsports-lc02-digital-wideband-lambda-02-sensor-controller-2005080/?sku=INN3877&istCompanyId=a2904180-3a7d-4e56-b876-cf81c9512180&istFeedId=6fbc4b04-fd28-4ce1-8513-835c8f118690&istItemId=wlqtwtwim&istBid=t&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4-upq6SdgwMVPZNQBh3jtgQ_EAQYBiABEgLqcvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

[atlex]

On 12/18/2023 at 10:15 PM, Aram said:

I really want link and prob get it than try Ecu or ME442 or other brand. I was just curious. I know link works, support is there and to me I guess rethinking this, I am happy to pay £1.4k as it is now than 1.2k . That is almost twice the price of many mx5 ecus but you get what you pay for I guess.

 

 

You'll always have me voting down the ME products. I've literally removed those to go G4X on both my Eunoses.

COPS don't make that much difference on average power Mazdas and the link understands wasted spark just fine, but any decent WBO2 will work - I recommend one where it isn't using the whole 0-5v range, so a modern aem-x for instance, where the 0-0.5v and 4.5-5v+ show unready or error state.

[Laminar]

10 hours ago, Aram said:

re can lambda it can be link or any brand I guess right? Link can lambda currently out of my price range as also buying link knockblock. Is innovate any good?

The 14point7.com Spartan 3 is well-regarded, you can get the controller + sensor for under $200 USD.

[koracing]

12 hours ago, Aram said:

what is diffrence between can lamda and just analog input lambda?

 

can uses digital processing and less prune to errors on normal analog lambda? I guess I could get can lambda and can gauge so can see multiple output/sensor

 

i was going to buy another aem analoug/ gauge style as on mx5 i am not pushing above 300 and i guess don’t want to learn can bus network( i know what it is) but learning curve …

is it hard to setup?

Analog inputs have a calibration interpreting the 0-5v signal which works and has been done for a generation, but is prone to offset and drift of the calibration particularly if you don't have a wideband with a ground output along witht he analog signal output.  This can lead to chasing the calibration to get it to match the gauge.  The biggest advantage of CAN is that you get the actual lambda value reported by the controller directly to the ecu, without any interpretation.  Using the CAN JST harness on the plug-in and then running at least the 2 wires (CANH and CANL) to the controller should be all that is needed other than switched power and ground to get the wideband installed.  The CAN setup in the ecu has great device specific information for both the AEM and Link lambda options with built in streams that can be loaded without entering everything manually.  The Spartan3 comes with pretty decent documentation instructions if memory serves also.  If you still needed help setting it up, lots of support on this forum can help get you set up.

12 hours ago, Aram said:

from I know lots of people do individual coil on plug for mazda. I need to check how my mazda is as of today( bought it and never checked under the bonnet!) i think it has one coil for two cylinders so 2x coil

 

does mx5 ecu allow doing individual coil plugs?

 

need to do more research here

There is certainly the ability in the ecu to do Coil on plug - looking at the MX5 NB1 pinout - there are two additional igntion outputs on the main header (ignition 5 and 6) that could be repurposed for coils, but you may need to rewire those functions to other spots.  Alternatively the Link could be modified to provide Ignition 3 and 4 outputs to allow for COP by Link before shipping to you.  

12 hours ago, Aram said:

On my e36 I am monitoring fuel pressure and adjusting dead time on that. I guess that is what you referring to?

 

 

re can lambda it can be link or any brand I guess right? Link can lambda currently out of my price range as also buying link knockblock. Is innovate any good?

 

https://www.demon-tweeks.com/innovate-motorsports-lc02-digital-wideband-lambda-02-sensor-controller-2005080/?sku=INN3877&istCompanyId=a2904180-3a7d-4e56-b876-cf81c9512180&istFeedId=6fbc4b04-fd28-4ce1-8513-835c8f118690&istItemId=wlqtwtwim&istBid=t&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4-upq6SdgwMVPZNQBh3jtgQ_EAQYBiABEgLqcvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Fuel pressure compensation in the fuel model when in FP Sensor mode is not the same as adjusting dead times.  It means that given all the parameters of what the engine needs for fuel at a given point in the fuel table, if the fuel pressure were to drop from 60psi to 43psi, the ecu would automatically compensate for the pressure differential and theoretically provide the correct adustment to the commanded injector pulse width to provide the same amount of fuel.  I think this is what you were asking?

The AEM CAN and Spartan CAN are less expensive than the Link. AEM is $185-$200 depending on if you want a gauge or not.  (actually AEM 30-0310 in line controller is on sale for $166.46 direct right now and the 30-0300 gauge type controller is $180 - leave it to Holley to sell direct for under MAP pricing).

There is no need for a knock block as the NB1 has a knock sensor and the Link can monitor it.

I would stay away from Innovate wideband controllers in particular.

[castillaricardo]

I’m not near my laptop right now to check, but my MX5 NB1 plugin has ignition 3 and 4 available through one of the expansion headers, and it can also power a wideband controller through the CAN header. I’ve had no issues with the Spartan 3 in my NB this way with the caveat of not being able to run while stalled, or using error codes which the Link CAN provides.

I want to echo koracing and stress how easy it is to get voltage offsets with the Innovate wideband because it doesn’t have a dedicated ground for the controller. Steer clear of it. AEM X series or Spartan 3 are good solutions.

[Stranger24]

There is a control box which has 4 connections. One goes out to gauge, one power in, one out to sensor and one output to ecu

output to ecu has 3 wires, ground , wide band and narrow band

gauge ground as well as output ground are on the ecu expansion loom .

i have total of 7 gauges all powered from ecu ground but fed by power from battery direct and fused to 5 amp so it won’t fry ecu

i used calibration table prosport provided and it was off little, i applied 0.9 correction to entire value ad now gauge and ecu reading match up

to me this sounded like either calibration table is wrong which is setup using prosport table or the gauge had offset ground and i fixed it by applying 0.9 to calibration table across all values

do you guys not do cal table and use value of 0.5 v on ecu? How does ecu know what volt means what afr?

link below shows wiring and table

see diagram below and tell me what you think of my setup. all the gauges are wide band are fed from ecu ground so this should avoid any issues right?

I protected ecu by 5amp so not too much power is drawn from ecu to fry it

 

 

[koracing]

The way an analog input works is the wideband controller (or other gauge with analog output) outputs a 0-5v signal to the ecu and then the ecu reads in that voltage on an analog input and then uses a calibration table to read that input and interpret the voltage to a corresponding value.  Due to the nature of the gauge using electrical components with tolerance to generate that 0-5v signal, and then the recieving ecu using electrical components with their own tolerances to receive the signal, there can be differences in both the slope and offset of the signal received versus the manufacturer's claimed calibration.  The calibration *must* be checked and corrected such that the ecu reading matches the gauge, and in many cases these values will change over time as well due to various reasons. 

The beauty of CAN is that there is none of this interpretation at either end and you get a clean signal reporting what Lambda/AFR is without and electrical components doing an analog interpretation.

I'm not sure what you mean by a "value of 0.5v on ecu".

I would ground all sensors to the ECU ground or the same spot as the ecu grounds, but power for each of the gauges I would run to the same spot on the chassis/engine the ecu grounds, but not go *throught* the ecu epansion pin as there is a limit on current capacity there.  The wideband itself may pull 3-5A at warmup so I'm not sure a single 5A fuse for all of that will work ok.  I would run the ecu on it's own dedictated fused circuit separate from the gauges so if there was ever a short in the prosport gauges (kind of cheaper gauges) it would not take the ecu out of operation.

Also a lot of what your gauges are monitoring should be already monitored by the ecu or could be if you wired the sensors direct to the ecu, and then you could display all those things in one gauge (Link CAN gauge) instead of having a bouquet of gauges all over, plus the ability to set up warnings and have failsafes set up in the ecu based on those things (low oil pressure for example).

[Stranger24]

Great thanks

 

what I meant was, how does ecu know voltage to afr, is it liner scale where every 0.5 is x lambda ?

 

i guess I am trying to understand if one can get away with not having calc table. On my skyline I see the tuner at the time has used no calc table and rather value of 0.5 to 4.5v and let ecu workout afr baed on generic sensor . I will double check when on pc again

 

re gauge, the issue is, I can't wire gauge to chassis and sensor those gauges use to ecu as there is a circuit inside the gauge which provides ground and power to gauges

 

i have user this setup with 5 amp and car being running for 3-4 hours with no issues

 

i guess I could get all chassis and sensors to chassis ground and only lambda gauge dedicated ground to ecu expansion loom?

 

I tap into signal line of the gauges and read it by ecu so from what I understood, if you have chassis ground and ecu ground, you could first have unreliable reading due to offset and second this is not best practice as you can run some power from say starter motor through ecu if your gauge is grounded to chassis and ecu