Thunder PCLink settings

[Mike928]

I'm trying to create a base map from the Thunder sample by adding and removing setting to match my setup.

I'm stuck on changing the sample from 6 to 8 cylinders that my V8 needs.

Injector drivers 7 and 8 are 'off' and locked???

Ignition driver 7 is set to 'EThrottle relay 1" and Ignition Driver 8 is set to 'Engine Fan 1' and both of thee are locked???

how can I get these to represent my 8 sequential injectors and 8 COPs?

[Adamw]

They will be assigned automatically when you load the map into an ecu.  This is done so the maps are compatible with any Link ecu - so for instance you can load a Thunder map into a Atom which only has 4 injector drives.  If it bothers you and you dont have an ecu to load it in you can attach it here and I will load it into a Thunder for you.

 

[Mike928]

Thanks Adam, that is a very generous offer. Yes, I do have the Link Thunder but it is still on my bench, un-powered.

What I really want is a fee for service review of my planned connections. I can not expect it to be done free.

I have a table of my proposed connections for plugs A, B, C and D [which I have]. Plus I have gone through the sample Thunder in PCLink to what I think is appropriate for my setup.

I think I have all my components and all my sensors here now and I'm doing the finishing touches to my wiring schematic, so I'm getting close to cutting and soldering but I want it to be correct.

My plan is to do as much of the wiring on the motor while it is still out of the car, on the stand, just for ease.

[Adamw]

We are here to support our users.  Please feel free to attach your IO list and I will critique it when I get a minute.  

[Mike928]

Thanks Adam. I was amazed at the Thunder's capacity to meet my needs but I'm more amazed by the fantastic service.

6.4 litre naturally aspirated v8, 8 COPs, 2 E-throttles, 2 knock sensors, 2 wide band O2 sensors, 2 Link EGT sensors, Porsche cam and crank angle sensors.

OttoLinkThunder.pdf G4+ Thunder 928.pclr

[Adamw]

Ok, I had a quick look over, most looks good.

A couple of things to mention:

1. You dont have power supply to your Cam sensor.  The 8V supply on ecu pin A6 is often convenient for hall sensors.
2. That oil pressure sensor/switch doesnt look right, it only has a ground and AN Volt connected.  If it is a variable resistance sensor then it will probably need a pull-up resistor to 5V added to make it work but that type dont usually work well.  Personally I would probably change it to a proper 0-5V sensor as the ecu can still mimic the "warning light switch" part of it just with a single pressure input.  

Are fans, fuel pump, E-throttle relay etrc all going to be done over CAN to PDM?  What is Aux 1 to the PDM doing?

[Mike928]

Thanks Adam,

I just found info on the cas, Bosch 0 232 101 013, it says pin 1=+5v, pin 2=signal, pin 3=shield. Can I connect this unit to 8V [I have nothing connected there], or must it have a 5V supply.

The oil pressure sensor is s stock 928 late addition with earth, gauge & low press pins. I chose it over my stock because it had a dedicated earth. What unit would you suggest? I'll fit what ever works.

Yes, all fans are controlled by pwm controllers, fuel pump to be triggered by Thunder to BCM and powered by PDM, same for +14v aux 9/10 & aux 17/18.

I don't know why I had aux 1 connected? it's not in my table, I think I may have been thinking of fuel pump trigger but then it should go to the BCM.

I have not yet got a grip of pull up/down resistors, I see their use but?

Will you send me the .pclr file with 8 injector and coil divers please?

[Adamw]

21 minutes ago, Mike928 said:

I just found info on the cas, Bosch 0 232 101 013, it says pin 1=+5v, pin 2=signal, pin 3=shield. Can I connect this unit to 8V [I have nothing connected there], or must it have a 5V supply.

99% of automotive hall effect sensors are happy on 8V, but I have never seen that one before and there is no data sheet that I can find.  If the OEM used 5V, I think it would be safer to stick to that.  

 

21 minutes ago, Mike928 said:

The oil pressure sensor is s stock 928 late addition with earth, gauge & low press pins. I chose it over my stock because it had a dedicated earth. What unit would you suggest? I'll fit what ever works.

It sounds like it is a variable resistance type.  So the factory oil pressure gauge would have had a pull-up resistor in it, the sensor is effectively a resistor connected to ground.  So between the gauge resistor and the sensor resistor you have what is know as a voltage divider circuit.  When the resistance of the sensor changes, the gauge will see a varying voltage from the voltage divider.  So you could make it work, but you will need to add a pull-up resistor to 5V like the pic below (ignore the fact this is a temp senor, they work in the same way).  The problem with these sensors is they are very low resolution and their accuracy varys a lot with temperature.  My favourite pressor sensor at the moment is the Bosch combined pressure/temp, or you can get one that is just pressure only for the same cost.  The connectors are a bit horrible to work with but they are very reliable sensors which in the issue with many of the lower cost sensors:  https://www.efihardware.com/products/3002/bosch-combination-145-psi-pressure-sensor-and-fluid-temperature-sensor  Pressure only:  https://www.efihardware.com/products/3000/bosch-150-psi-10-bar-gauge-pressure-sensor

 

Your updated map attached.

 

G4Thunder928 V0.1.pclr

[Mike928]

ok, I have bought the Bosch pressure/temperature combined sensor. I already have a Link temp senor in the sump but it can be a spare.

Thanks for the .PCLR file it looks much better.

How many sensors can be run from each +5 Volt supply?

[Adamw]

2 hours ago, Mike928 said:

How many sensors can be run from each +5 Volt supply?

400mA, so 20 say or so typical sensors easily.

[928sg]

Hey Mike~!  Glad to see you posting on here~!   

Adam, Mike and I are both adding Thunder's to Porsche 928's.   

The factory cam (hall) Sensors are the same as Porsche 944's which I've seen some documentation in the help file for.   I'm not using e throttles so mine should be more simple.   

[Mike928]

1 hour ago, 928sg said:

Hey Mike~!  Glad to see you posting on here~!   

Adam, Mike and I are both adding Thunder's to Porsche 928's.   

The factory cam (hall) Sensors are the same as Porsche 944's which I've seen some documentation in the help file for.   I'm not using e throttles so mine should be more simple.   

Hi Sterling,

I've trolled through you thread and that has been very helpful.

Adam truly is 'the man'.

A friend here has an 89 928 with an Extreme ECU and I hope to check some of his wiring.

[Mike928]

My question goes back to the Porsche Cayenne Coil-On-Plugs by Beru.

Having read a document by Beru on the development of these 'pencil' type coils, it's clear that they use a primary current of 15 Amps.

I've attached a pic of a coil connector to show the size of the wires used. The red/yellow wire #3 is 12v constant and the first brown wire is ECU Gnd and the smaller brown wire #2 is the engine Gnd.

The Link Thunder does not have ECU Gnd wires anything like this size, so, will this be an issue?

[Adamw]

Ground the two ground wires to the same point on cyl head or engine block will be the best. One is a ground for the primary winding (high current), one is for the secondary winding (high voltage), so neither needs or wants to be connected to the ecu.

[928sg]

Mike,

      There is a 6mm boss on the back of the cylinder heads that would be good for a ground location.       I'm planning to loop one ground over to the other one at the connector for each coil, and then run a single ground back for each coil.  (unless Adam tells me not to)   I'm using the standard VAG coils instead of the Cayenne coils, just because there was a ton more info out there on the specs and use of them.

[Adamw]

5 hours ago, 928sg said:

I'm planning to loop one ground over to the other one at the connector for each coil, and then run a single ground back for each coil. 

I would keep the grounds as separate wires but fine to crimp them all into the same lug at the ground point.  

[Mike928]

I think I'll use the 6mm holes that the stock throttle body mounted to, as I'll have nothing in the valley except the 2 knock sensors.

Plus there are the original earth points [MP IX & MP VIII] on the bell housing.

I have also increased the size of the earth cable from the chassis rail to the lower block  and the 2 from the inner guards to the 2 cam towers [MP III & MP X].

[Mike928]

I have 2 Link Thermo-couples to connect to my Link Thunder and they come with substantial heat resistant shielding.

What is the recommended method of connecting them to the 'D' plug on the Thunder, for future service?

Connecting then directly into plug 'D' would mean changing them [if one ever failed or got damaged] would be a hassle.

Can I simply put a Deutsche 2 pin plug at or near the Thunder ECU?

[Adamw]

If you have any intermediate connector between the cold junction (ecu) and the hot junction (tip of thermocouple) then its meant to have special Chromel/Alumel terminals, otherwise an offset will be generated at that connector junction.  You can get Chromel/Alumel pins for DTM connectors but they are crazy expensive - like USD30 per pin.  Not quite as nice but far more realistically priced are the common "K type" miniture TC plugs.  Something like this: https://nz.rs-online.com/web/p/temperature-sensor-accessories/4559764/

[Mike928]

So, is it best to solder straight into the 'D' plus and forget the connector?

[Adamw]

The superseal pins are generally crimped rather than soldered - but yes if you connect the TC wires directly to the ecu then everything is rosy.  The ECU has a temperature sensor inside so it does what is known as "cold junction compensation" which cancels out the effect of the dissimilar metals used for the ecu pins. 

[Yvo]

Hi, i have fitted this to mine and work fine

https://www.zweiradteile-shop.de/elektrik/kabel-stecker/p3266-stecker-2-polig-steckverbindung-wasserdicht

[Mike928]

I've just opened my Loom A & B packets and I find some of the wires on Loom A are labelled. Nice.

What is the intended purpose for Green wire from Gnd Out [pin A24] marked TPS 1?

Throttle position sensor as in mechanical throttle body, or TPS 1 in E-Throttle [if so, which throttle body], or throttle pedal position sensor?

I thought I had my 2 E-Throttle wires all sorted until I found this.

[Adamw]

All of the green wires are sensor grounds.  The one in the TPS bundle would typically be the sensor ground for a TPS sensor - but if you have already wired your throttle then that bundle is not needed.  You can use that "TPS" bundle which has a 5v, Gnd and a AN volt for anything you like - for instance fuel pressure if you wish.  

[Mike928]

OK, here's what I hope is my final layout, subject to your advice, for plugs A & B.

Link Plug A.pdf Link Plug B.pdf