Thunder PCLink settings

[Mike928]

It is clearly my error in that I was working the laptop and my wife was working the ignition switch on the other side of the car. At the message to cycle the power I didn't leave her time and clicked 'ok' ahead of her.

I had another attempt yesterday after the battery had been disconnected for 3 days and the laptop was off but no joy. The only way to get rid of the 'boot mode' message is to disconnect the USB cable to the ECU, or connect the ECU with the 'manual connect' mode on but as soon as any attempt to connect is made, up come the boot mode warning which stops ANYTHING from being accessed and won't go away.

An internet search showed a few people with the same problem an one guy had success after following your suggestion to remove the ECU from the car and power it on the bench via the large diode on the  circuit board, so I tried that but it behaves exactly the same as in the car.

Really hoping you can get me out of this?

 

[Adamw]

You dont need to connect PC Link, go straight to the firmware update tool and run the update.  

[Mike928]

all good Adam, your patient man, thank you.

[Mike928]

Now I've powered my thunder, I get these errors?

It says it's limited to 1800rpm? What should I check?

[Vaughan]

Looks like you've lost a signal ground, check your wiring

[Mike928]

ok

[Mike928]

I'm working through the ECU setup and I see way back in this thread that I planned to power the Bosch oil press/temp sensor, 0261230340, from plug A #32 but I haven't. The sensor came with it's plug and pigtail, with no wire on pin #3, 5v+!

does it need 5v+? why would they omit this wire? Also, do I set it to std NTC Bosch?

I have thoroughly checked all the e-throttle and pedal wiring and it's wholesome but I'm getting errors. namely the AP Main is at 100% while the AP Sub is at 0%?

928_Link_Thunder_E-trottles.pdf

[Mike928]

Also, what should I set my fuel pressure sender as? T's 0-150psi linear 0.5-4.50 volt.

[Adamw]

3 hours ago, Mike928 said:

The sensor came with it's plug and pigtail, with no wire on pin #3, 5v+!

does it need 5v+? why would they omit this wire? Also, do I set it to std NTC Bosch?

Yes, you need the 5V supply, there should be 4 wires.  Be aware some of the mating Chinese connectors have the pins numbered differently to the sensor so make sure you confirm that you are looking at the right pin with the sensor datasheet.  The pressure side you need to use a linear cal, for the temp side use Std Bosch NTC.

 

3 hours ago, Mike928 said:

I have thoroughly checked all the e-throttle and pedal wiring and it's wholesome but I'm getting errors. namely the AP Main is at 100% while the AP Sub is at 0%?

Have you done the APS calibration?  Do the voltages on both AN Volt inputs move when you press the pedal?

 

3 hours ago, Mike928 said:

Also, what should I set my fuel pressure sender as? T's 0-150psi linear 0.5-4.50 volt.

1000Kpa/ (150psi) Ti Sensor.

 

[Mike928]

ok, I've ordered a new plug for the oil press/temp sender and it'll get another wire with 5V.

The only calibration I've done is the MAP [Link 4 bar]. No voltages move when AP pressed.

I want to read up on the E-throttle/Accel pedal setup/calibration but I've not found much, certainly no 'procedure' as such. I'm contemplating doing the HPA course on Link G4+, is this worth doing?

Been through and set all the other sensors and I'm getting sensible gauge readings now.

O2 #2 not heating up on ignition, so I have to chase that.

[Vaughan]

57 minutes ago, Mike928 said:

I want to read up on the E-throttle/Accel pedal setup/calibration but I've not found much

Have you looked in the PCLink help manual.

 

[Mike928]

OK, done some stuff.

Firstly, I'm working with incomplete wiring setup as the 2 PDMs [Power Distribution Modules] and the LCD instrument cluster are not fitted because the supplier/installer wants the Link Thunder setup first so he can configure the CANBUS between them all. Mostly I just power the Link through plug A pin 5 +14V. It doesn't seen to do much but powering plug C pin 2 Ign trigger.

I fitted a new engine oil sender plug and wired it according to the Bosch 0261230340 pinout and configured it in PCLink as instructed by Adamw. I selected CAL4 as the linear type for the pressure side but it reads 626kpa stationary and the error value for AN12, where the pressure is connected, is 0.000 Lambda? The temp side is set to std Bosch ntc but it reads 93C when it's about 16C here?

Next the E-throttles. I have calibrated the AP and it took away the 100% for AP Main but that is ack today?

I still get no voltage movements when pressing the AP down.

For throttle body calibration it is very confusing when pinouts for Link are for example TPS 2 (Out) and TPS (-) but the instructions refer to SUB or MAIN?

I've attached my files for some guidance.

928_Link_Thunder_E-trottles.pdf G4+_928_6L.pclr

[Mike928]

CAL 5 table, linear kpa. HO HUM!

[Adamw]

On 10/4/2023 at 5:46 PM, Mike928 said:

The temp side is set to std Bosch ntc but it reads 93C when it's about 16C here?

The map you attached above has the oil temp calibration on AN T3 set to "Ford Falcon CHT", not Std Bosch NTC.

 

On 10/4/2023 at 5:46 PM, Mike928 said:

I still get no voltage movements when pressing the AP down.

Where did you get the pinout for that pedal sensor?  The few pics I can find online suggest it only has one position output, then it looks like maybe a WOT and idle switch?  

 

On 10/4/2023 at 5:46 PM, Mike928 said:

For throttle body calibration it is very confusing when pinouts for Link are for example TPS 2 (Out) and TPS (-) but the instructions refer to SUB or MAIN?

You dont have any sensor ground connected to your throttles.  Pin 2 is sensor ground. 

[Mike928]

1 hour ago, Adamw said:

The map you attached above has the oil temp calibration on AN T3 set to "Ford Falcon CHT", not Std Bosch NTC.

 

Where did you get the pinout for that pedal sensor?  The few pics I can find online suggest it only has one position output, then it looks like maybe a WOT and idle switch?  

 

You don't have any sensor ground connected to your throttles.  Pin 2 is sensor ground. 

I'm starting to get my head around the E-throttles by going through many different pages of the Help section.

I seem to have some things very wrong!

I have #1 TPS +&- at  plug A32 (+) and B31 (-) which is AN Volt10??

#2 TPS plug D4 (+) and plug B322 (-) which is AN Volt11??

So you are correct no grounds. I have to move these 2 wires for TPS (-) to a ground pin.

I've changed my temp sensors twice but they reset themselves back to Falcon??

Attached is my VW pedal pinout. I thought I got it from you but clearly not?

VW_Pedal.docx

[Mike928]

On 10/6/2023 at 1:33 PM, Mike928 said:

I'm starting to get my head around the E-throttles by going through many different pages of the Help section.

I seem to have some things very wrong!

I have #1 TPS +&- at  plug A32 (+) and B31 (-) which is AN Volt10??

#2 TPS plug D4 (+) and plug B322 (-) which is AN Volt11??

So you are correct no grounds. I have to move these 2 wires for TPS (-) to a ground pin.

I've changed my temp sensors twice but they reset themselves back to Falcon??

Attached is my VW pedal pinout. I thought I got it from you but clearly not?

VW_Pedal.docx 39.84 kB · 1 download

Some progress.

TPS (-) 1&2 have been moved from AN Volt pins to Plug B #22 [ground out]. I now know that TPS 1&2 out is another name for TPS Main & Sub. Who says you can't tach an old dog new tricks?

Set Aux 3 to E-throttle relay trigger, wired to a solid state relay powering  Injectors, Plug B #5 [Aux 9/10] & plug D #4 [E-throttle 2 and APPS. The relay LED came on and PCLink showed 12.6 volts for both Aux 9/10 and 17-20.

Next I did the APPS calibration. AP Main graph was showing 100%, TP Main 0%. This went as I think it should and AP Main is now at 0%.

Next I did E-throttle and it went smoothly. I could hear the throttle bodies doing their yoga and now the TP Main says 5.8%.

Here's the bummer. The E-throttle relay is now inactive, even though Aux 3 is still to trigger on? and voltages for Aux 9/10 and 17/18 are back to 0.9 volts?

If I jumper the relay the screen shows 12.8 volts for the motors.

Has the ECU locked out the throttle motor power or have I got a dead relay [that is easy to check/replace].

[Mike928]

3 hours ago, Mike928 said:

Some progress.

TPS (-) 1&2 have been moved from AN Volt pins to Plug B #22 [ground out]. I now know that TPS 1&2 out is another name for TPS Main & Sub. Who says you can't tach an old dog new tricks?

Set Aux 3 to E-throttle relay trigger, wired to a solid state relay powering  Injectors, Plug B #5 [Aux 9/10] & plug D #4 [E-throttle 2 and APPS. The relay LED came on and PCLink showed 12.6 volts for both Aux 9/10 and 17-20.

Next I did the APPS calibration. AP Main graph was showing 100%, TP Main 0%. This went as I think it should and AP Main is now at 0%.

Next I did E-throttle and it went smoothly. I could hear the throttle bodies doing their yoga and now the TP Main says 5.8%.

Here's the bummer. The E-throttle relay is now inactive, even though Aux 3 is still to trigger on? and voltages for Aux 9/10 and 17/18 are back to 0.9 volts?

If I jumper the relay the screen shows 12.8 volts for the motors.

Has the ECU locked out the throttle motor power or have I got a dead relay [that is easy to check/replace].

One other thing I did note was when the accel pedal is pressed, the AP (Main) bar graph does not move from zero until the pedal is fully pressed, then the bar graph jumps straight to 100%.

[Confused]

5 hours ago, Mike928 said:

Set Aux 3 to E-throttle relay trigger, wired to a solid state relay powering  Injectors, Plug B #5 [Aux 9/10] & plug D #4 [E-throttle 2 and APPS.

You don't want this relay feeding all these things with your E-Throttle relay - ONLY Plug B pin 5 for Aux9/10. If you're using E-Throttle 2 (Plug D pin 4) then this should have its own separate relay, triggered from a separate output, using the EThrottle Relay 2 function. 

If the E-Throttle safety kicks in due to an error, it will kill power to the E-Throttle via this relay, but you still want the injectors to run, the engine will still function, and will be limited to 1800rpm, this is to allow you to still get the car to safety. If you've powered things like injectors from this too, you'll stop the engine, and this safety has gone, you'll be stranded where you are.

 

The AP Main should change values smoothly from 0% to 100% as you depress the pedal.

[Mike928]

20 minutes ago, Confused said:

You don't want this relay feeding all these things with your E-Throttle relay - ONLY Plug B pin 5 for Aux9/10. If you're using E-Throttle 2 (Plug D pin 4) then this should have its own separate relay, triggered from a separate output, using the EThrottle Relay 2 function. 

If the E-Throttle safety kicks in due to an error, it will kill power to the E-Throttle via this relay, but you still want the injectors to run, the engine will still function, and will be limited to 1800rpm, this is to allow you to still get the car to safety. If you've powered things like injectors from this too, you'll stop the engine, and this safety has gone, you'll be stranded where you are.

 

The AP Main should change values smoothly from 0% to 100% as you depress the pedal.

Thank you for that. I'm relay squeezed for space on my circuit board but I'll find a way to to do it.

[Adamw]

20 hours ago, Mike928 said:

Here's the bummer. The E-throttle relay is now inactive, even though Aux 3 is still to trigger on? and voltages for Aux 9/10 and 17/18 are back to 0.9 volts?

I dont quite understand what you are saying about Aux 3 hear, but if its status says inactive then the ECU has disabled the throttle on purpose.   Probably because of what you mentioned about the APS main not working correctly.  

[Mike928]

2 hours ago, Adamw said:

I dont quite understand what you are saying about Aux 3 hear, but if its status says inactive then the ECU has disabled the throttle on purpose.   Probably because of what you mentioned about the APS main not working correctly.  

Once I assigned Aux 3 to trigger the E-throttle relay, it closed and I could see 12 volts at Aux 9/10 & 17/18 but after the throttle calibration, that voltage had dropped to 0.9v? and the relay open?

Adam, with the APS, we have traded wiring diags for it but I am keen to know what your thoughts are. Does the unit sound faulty to you? or do you think it looks to be wired incorrectly? Should I replace it with a new Bosch unit with a clearer wiring instruction. That would be a pain we have modified the pedal assembly once so we can do it again.

6 minutes ago, Mike928 said:

Once I assigned Aux 3 to trigger the E-throttle relay, it closed and I could see 12 volts at Aux 9/10 & 17/18 but after the throttle calibration, that voltage had dropped to 0.9v? and the relay open?

Adam, with the APS, we have traded wiring diags for it but I am keen to know what your thoughts are. Does the unit sound faulty to you? or do you think it looks to be wired incorrectly? Should I replace it with a new Bosch unit with a clearer wiring instruction. That would be a pain we have modified the pedal assembly once so we can do it again.

I found a forum post on High Performance Academy that provides the wiring pinout for the Bosch Accelerator Pedal Sensor 0205001034. According to the post, the pinout is as follows:

1. +5V
2. +5V
3. Sensor Ground
4. APP 1
5. Sensor Ground
6. APP 2

[Adamw]

8 hours ago, Mike928 said:

Once I assigned Aux 3 to trigger the E-throttle relay, it closed and I could see 12 volts at Aux 9/10 & 17/18 but after the throttle calibration, that voltage had dropped to 0.9v? and the relay open?

Yes, the ecu will switch off the relay if there is a potential safety issue with the throttle control.  

 

8 hours ago, Mike928 said:

Adam, with the APS, we have traded wiring diags for it but I am keen to know what your thoughts are.

As I said a few posts further up, the few wiring diagrams for car models that are listed against that sensor part number suggest it isn't a typical pedal sensor suitable for DBW.  It is from a diesel engine, it appears to only have one position sensor and two switches.  A multimeter will be able to confirm that pretty quickly.  If you measure resistance between the gr/ge/gn wires while moving the sensor, if it has a potentiometer inside then you should see a nice linear change in resistance between two of those pins over the full range of movement.  If it is a switch the multimeter will either show 0 or OL for most of the range then suddenly snap to the opposite at one end of the travel.  

[Mike928]

On 10/12/2023 at 7:37 PM, Adamw said:

Yes, the ecu will switch off the relay if there is a potential safety issue with the throttle control.  

 

As I said a few posts further up, the few wiring diagrams for car models that are listed against that sensor part number suggest it isn't a typical pedal sensor suitable for DBW.  It is from a diesel engine, it appears to only have one position sensor and two switches.  A multimeter will be able to confirm that pretty quickly.  If you measure resistance between the gr/ge/gn wires while moving the sensor, if it has a potentiometer inside then you should see a nice linear change in resistance between two of those pins over the full range of movement.  If it is a switch the multimeter will either show 0 or OL for most of the range then suddenly snap to the opposite at one end of the travel.  

I now have both E-throttle bodies on their own relays, #1 triggered by Aux3 high and #2 triggered by Aux2 high. The pull in (-) side of each relay goes to ground. #1 relay supplies 12volt + to plug B pin 5 to supply Aux 9/10 and #2 relay supplies 12volt + to plug D pin 1 to supply Aux 17/18.

The injectors will be powered by the PDM.

The 8 coils have their own 120A relay as previously discussed these BERU coils [Porsche Cayenne] seem to need a lot of current. I've triggered this relay from Aux 5, as the PCLink help says  Aux 5-10 can trigger switched high relays. I chose 'Engine fan' from the drop down for function as there is no general relay selection.

The APPS I think I'll just fit a new one of known type and condition. I'm looking at Bosch 0280755051 [attached] so I'll have to make yet another bracket.

928_Link_Thunder_E-trottles.pdf

[Confused]

Whilst some of the outputs can high side drive (switch 12v through the ECU), it's better to low side drive (switch ground through the ECU) wherever possible, in my opinion.

 

You have "GP Output" which you can use for a generic relay output, this can have a variety of parameters assigned to it for when it activates. DON'T use Engine Fan for this, UNLESS it's driving an engine fan relay - there's a whole set of logic behind this.

However - do you actually need to control the power to the coils from the ECU? When do you think you'll ever need to remove power from the coils? This will generally just be triggered from your ignition switch.

[Mike928]

8 hours ago, Confused said:

Whilst some of the outputs can high side drive (switch 12v through the ECU), it's better to low side drive (switch ground through the ECU) wherever possible, in my opinion.

 

You have "GP Output" which you can use for a generic relay output, this can have a variety of parameters assigned to it for when it activates. DON'T use Engine Fan for this, UNLESS it's driving an engine fan relay - there's a whole set of logic behind this.

However - do you actually need to control the power to the coils from the ECU? When do you think you'll ever need to remove power from the coils? This will generally just be triggered from your ignition switch.

OK, that's easy to achieve, I'll trigger it from an Ign on fuse bank.

I've been reading and re-reading and it seems that I should power both the ECU pwr, plug A pin5 and the injector power from the same relay, as the ECU wants to know the actual voltage going to the injectors for accurate timing. So I'll fit another relay triggered from 'Main Relay' +&- to ow side switch this using Ign pin #2 on plug C to activate the ECU.