New motor build, won’t start. Evo 9

[Robsevo9]

Hello wondering if anyone can give me advice , just did the build on my evo 9, I’m running link g4x pnp, car has fuel, car has spark, car is timed, injectors are new and working fine, (fuel on piston) there’s nothing coming up on the ecu saying something isn’t connected, everything is fine…. But it won’t start like if there’s no spark like if the key isn’t registering idk what else to do. Crank/cam sensors are also good . I’m lost , any advise will be very much appreciated thank you in advanced 

[essb00]

Pls attach a copy of your tune file, and a short log while trying to start.

[Robsevo9]

14 minutes ago, essb00 said:

Pls attach a copy of your tune file, and a short log while trying to start.

hello, here it is. thanks

PC Datalog - 2023-10-22 11;48;52 wont start.llgx 3-19-23 rev 1.pclx

[k4nnon]

Hey looked over your cal and log. Im still learning all of this stuff as well, but compared to my evo 9, your idle base control table values look super low. Every car will be different but maybe try raising the values there. Mine taper from 75 cold temps to 50 when hot. Give that a shot and see if it will stay running enough to fine tune your idle. Hope that helps and hope you get it figured out.

[Robsevo9]

9 minutes ago, k4nnon said:

Hey looked over your cal and log. Im still learning all of this stuff as well, but compared to my evo 9, your idle base control table values look super low. Every car will be different but maybe try raising the values there. Mine taper from 75 cold temps to 50 when hot. Give that a shot and see if it will stay running enough to fine tune your idle. Hope that helps and hope you get it figured out.

Thanks man, problem is car doesn't turn on at all. 

[k4nnon]

Heyy my bad I just briefly viewed your log and cal file. Looked like the vehicle was cranking over just not firing. Maybe I missed something. Im pretty experienced with evos, just not extremely experienced with the link stuff yet. Although I have my own vehicle running pretty great, spotting issues in other cal files is difficult. I know the evo 8s had some ignition issues. Im currently dealing with one right now actually on stock ecu. Best to start off with all of your general checks and go from there. If you get it figured out, post up the fix so i can pay attention to it. Thanks and best of luck.

[Robsevo9]

26 minutes ago, k4nnon said:

Heyy my bad I just briefly viewed your log and cal file. Looked like the vehicle was cranking over just not firing. Maybe I missed something. Im pretty experienced with evos, just not extremely experienced with the link stuff yet. Although I have my own vehicle running pretty great, spotting issues in other cal files is difficult. I know the evo 8s had some ignition issues. Im currently dealing with one right now actually on stock ecu. Best to start off with all of your general checks and go from there. If you get it figured out, post up the fix so i can pay attention to it. Thanks and best of luck.

Will do!

[Adamw]

I dont see anything obvious in the log, it appears to have everything it should need.  The throttle is potentially open more than it needs to be, and although that shouldnt prevent it from starting, with that combined with your slow cranking RPM you dont have any manifold vacuum being generated which means you will have less fuel vapour to promote combustion. It would be worth a shot of starter fluid to see if that gives any signs of life.  

[Robsevo9]

10 minutes ago, Adamw said:

I dont see anything obvious in the log, it appears to have everything it should need.  The throttle is potentially open more than it needs to be, and although that shouldnt prevent it from starting, with that combined with your slow cranking RPM you dont have any manifold vacuum being generated which means you will have less fuel vapour to promote combustion. It would be worth a shot of starter fluid to see if that gives any signs of life.  

Hey Adam thank you, I did and I get no response from the spray, I also hear a poof sound when I put the key on the ” on” position it doesn’t always happen but it smells like smoke when it happens.

[Adamw]

The backfire at power up was a hardware issue on some of the early G4X ecus, the ignition output could go high very briefly during boot up which was enough for some coils to generate a spark.  This can be returned to Link to be updated later when/if you want to.  Its not going to stop it from running though.   

[Robsevo9]

3 minutes ago, Adamw said:

The backfire at power up was a hardware issue on some of the early G4X ecus, the ignition output could go high very briefly during boot up which was enough for some coils to generate a spark.  This can be returned to Link to be updated later when/if you want to.  Its not going to stop it from running though.   

Ah ok thanks…. I’m lost with this. Idk what else it needs if it was running before my build and now it’s not and I haven’t changed any wires at all

[David Ferguson]

Is there any chance the cam was installed 180 degrees out of phase?  This would fire your ignition on the exhaust stroke.  Sometimes this makes a pop in the exhaust, but often it just silently doesn't have any compression so it won't run.

[Robsevo9]

51 minutes ago, David Ferguson said:

Is there any chance the cam was installed 180 degrees out of phase?  This would fire your ignition on the exhaust stroke.  Sometimes this makes a pop in the exhaust, but often it just silently doesn't have any compression so it won't run.

Nah I triple checked this build even had someone else check it lol. It’s just not starting

[Robsevo9]

2 hours ago, Adamw said:

The backfire at power up was a hardware issue on some of the early G4X ecus, the ignition output could go high very briefly during boot up which was enough for some coils to generate a spark.  This can be returned to Link to be updated later when/if you want to.  Its not going to stop it from running though.   

 So I found 4 grey wires missing a wire I think?
 

Pin 34 ground signal to 4 black wires

Pin 78 an volt signal 4 green wires 

 Pin 49 ground tps map to 4 black wire

 

Pin   ( ?)4 grey wires missing wire, does a wire connect there?

[Adamw]

56 minutes ago, Robsevo9 said:

So I found 4 grey wires missing a wire I think?

Before you go digging through the endless list of most likely irrelevant possibilities, I would always take a step back and think about the fundamentals first - Really all you need to run is compression, fuel, and spark at the right time.  And usually those fundamentals dont even need to be close to perfect for there to be at least some signs of life, the fact that you have no signs of life at all suggests one of those fundamentals is missing. 

Your log shows the ecu is commanding fuel and spark, you have apparently also tried spraying starter fluid with no improvement so that mostly rules out fuel from being the factor that is missing.  So spark, spark timing or compression.   Your trigger offset is correct for an evo, but I know it is possible to fit both the crank and cam wheels incorrectly on the 4G63, so have you confirmed ignition timing with a timing light while cranking? 

Have you confirmed there is acceptable compression?  Cam timing confirmed?  

Why is it cranking RPM so slow when batt voltage appears to be ok?  Does the engine sound tight/slow when cranking?  

 

[Robsevo9]

15 minutes ago, Adamw said:

Before you go digging through the endless list of most likely irrelevant possibilities, I would always take a step back and think about the fundamentals first - Really all you need to run is compression, fuel, and spark at the right time.  And usually those fundamentals dont even need to be close to perfect for there to be at least some signs of life, the fact that you have no signs of life at all suggests one of those fundamentals is missing. 

Your log shows the ecu is commanding fuel and spark, you have apparently also tried spraying starter fluid with no improvement so that mostly rules out fuel from being the factor that is missing.  So spark, spark timing or compression.   Your trigger offset is correct for an evo, but I know it is possible to fit both the crank and cam wheels incorrectly on the 4G63, so have you confirmed ignition timing with a timing light while cranking? 

Have you confirmed there is acceptable compression?  Cam timing confirmed?  

Why is it cranking RPM so slow when batt voltage appears to be ok?  Does the engine sound tight/slow when cranking?  

 

It does sound tight and slow when cranking. Cam and crank are fine. Motor is fine. New pistons and rings. Everything in the engine is brand new. I haven’t done the timing light thing. I wouldn’t know where to begin.

[k4nnon]

@Robsevo9 Def need to do the ignition sync when it gets running but as said above, the simple checks need to be confirmed first. As far as the new build goes. Evos need crank and exhaust cam position sensors correct to fire. The Intake and exhaust cam sensors do have different part numbers and can be switched in the housings. I have never confirmed that a vehicle would not actually run with the sensors switched but that is one thing to check. The exhaust trigger wheel can also be installed 180 degrees off from correct as well, this could actually cause the ignition to fire at the incorrect time. This is easy to check. If you get the engine to TDC, remove the exhaust cam sensor and you should be able to see through the bore to the back side of the housing. If the trigger is 180 off, as soon as you look in the bore the trigger will be blocking from seeing through any further. The slow engine cranking issue could be weak battery or weak grounding somewhere. Starter could be getting tired. Compression check is always a good confirmation to make sure its capable of firing. Evos are very easy to foul plugs with a new build, especially if the fueling isnt correct. Check the plugs, if they are black they may be fouled and not firing. Fuel pressure check, TP calibration, MAP/BAP/IAT in check. If all that seems good then it shoudnt be too far from starting. Let us know if you figure anything out.

[Robsevo9]

15 minutes ago, k4nnon said:

@Robsevo9 Def need to do the ignition sync when it gets running but as said above, the simple checks need to be confirmed first. As far as the new build goes. Evos need crank and exhaust cam position sensors correct to fire. The Intake and exhaust cam sensors do have different part numbers and can be switched in the housings. I have never confirmed that a vehicle would not actually run with the sensors switched but that is one thing to check. The exhaust trigger wheel can also be installed 180 degrees off from correct as well, this could actually cause the ignition to fire at the incorrect time. This is easy to check. If you get the engine to TDC, remove the exhaust cam sensor and you should be able to see through the bore to the back side of the housing. If the trigger is 180 off, as soon as you look in the bore the trigger will be blocking from seeing through any further. The slow engine cranking issue could be weak battery or weak grounding somewhere. Starter could be getting tired. Compression check is always a good confirmation to make sure its capable of firing. Evos are very easy to foul plugs with a new build, especially if the fueling isnt correct. Check the plugs, if they are black they may be fouled and not firing. Fuel pressure check, TP calibration, MAP/BAP/IAT in check. If all that seems good then it shoudnt be too far from starting. Let us know if you figure anything out.

Hey gm, yes all is aligned good, plugs are new and white with no signs of use. I’m going to check my battery and starter. It does crank over slow but not dead slow almost lazy

[Robsevo9]

Does everything look ok here? Everything is lined up and the plate looks fine I think

[aerace_fab]

I’ve had situations in the past where builders would have the T-belt extremely tight and the engine would crank over slow is that possibly your issue? Can you check the tension of the belt? 

[Adamw]

That looks ok yes.  Now to confirm it is on TDC#1 compression you can look at #1 intake lobe through the oil filler cap, and check its pointing towards the firewall - or if you have the top belt cover off then the pulley marks should be at the top.  If you're not on TDC 1 then rotate another 360deg.  Then pull the cap off the exhaust cam sensor housing to confirm the small tooth is pointing north-west or about 10:30 o'clock.  

[Robsevo9]

7 minutes ago, aerace_fab said:

I’ve had situations in the past where builders would have the T-belt extremely tight and the engine would crank over slow is that possibly your issue? Can you check the tension of the belt? 

The pin goes in and out easy so the T belt is fine. Thanks

[Robsevo9]

21 minutes ago, Adamw said:

That looks ok yes.  Now to confirm it is on TDC#1 compression you can look at #1 intake lobe through the oil filler cap, and check its pointing towards the firewall - or if you have the top belt cover off then the pulley marks should be at the top.  If you're not on TDC 1 then rotate another 360deg.  Then pull the cap off the exhaust cam sensor housing to confirm the small tooth is pointing north-west or about 10:30 o'clock.  

I took the head off to check a leak I thought I had but didn’t, before I did I zip tie the cams with cylinder 1 tdc… here’s a pic of both cams 

[Robsevo9]

1 hour ago, Adamw said:

That looks ok yes.  Now to confirm it is on TDC#1 compression you can look at #1 intake lobe through the oil filler cap, and check its pointing towards the firewall - or if you have the top belt cover off then the pulley marks should be at the top.  If you're not on TDC 1 then rotate another 360deg.  Then pull the cap off the exhaust cam sensor housing to confirm the small tooth is pointing north-west or about 10:30 o'clock.  

Also I called link about the issue I’m having (pop before turning the car on) and I’m sending out the ecu tomorrow.  Thanks for that.

[Robsevo9]

Also can anyone confirm if these blocked holes are ok? Evo 9 with mivec